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Will Travelcard Zone 6 ever expand to include Dartford stattion?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 17th 03, 10:44 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Nick
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Posts: 39
Default Will Travelcard Zone 6 ever expand to include Dartford stattion?

And to include Swanley?. Both stations are within the M25 area and are
included in the Freedom Pass area (and quite sensibly too...)

Dartford in particular is an important interchange for the three lines to
the west through Bexley.

When I asked Bexley and Dartford councils ages ago, their view that it's
"nothing to do with us, contact TfL". Similarly Connex were not interested
and directed me to TfL. After a very lengthy period, TfL replied and said
they completely agree that Dartford is an important interchange station for
lines serving Bexley, but it was strictly outside the "Greater London" area
and it "wouldn't be appropriate" to use GLA funds to pay for an expansion of
Zone 6 by compensating Connex for any loss of revenue.

Are there any precedents for stations outside the Greater London boundary
being in the Travelcard area?

Nick


  #2  
Old July 17th 03, 11:14 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
John Rowland
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Posts: 2,577
Default Will Travelcard Zone 6 ever expand to include Dartford stattion?

"Nick" wrote in message
...

Are there any precedents for stations outside the Greater London boundary
being in the Travelcard area?


Moor Park. I think Elstree might be as well.

The Epping Forest stations are also within the zones, but I think that the
council pays TfL for that.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes


  #3  
Old July 17th 03, 11:25 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Peter Masson
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Posts: 26
Default Will Travelcard Zone 6 ever expand to include Dartford stattion?


"Nick" wrote in message
...
And to include Swanley?. Both stations are within the M25 area and are
included in the Freedom Pass area (and quite sensibly too...)

Dartford in particular is an important interchange for the three lines to
the west through Bexley.

Are there any precedents for stations outside the Greater London boundary
being in the Travelcard area?

Thames Ditton and Hampton Court stations are outside the GL boundary, and
when teh zonal scheme came in were outside the Travelcard boundary, but this
was quickly amended to include them.

Grange Hill, Chigwell, Roding Valley and Loughton are olutside GL, but have
always been included within Zone 6. Zone 6 has subsequently been extended to
include the Loughton - Epping section of the Central Line.

Elstree is outside GL, but is now within Zone 6.

You can get to Dartford or Swanley using a Travelcard, but you have to
travel by bus. The Cannon Street - Sidcup - Abbey Wood - Cannon Street
roundabout trains stray across the GL boundary between Crayford and Slade
Green, but a Zone 6 Travelcard is valid.

Peter


  #4  
Old July 17th 03, 11:56 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Peter Masson
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Posts: 26
Default Will Travelcard Zone 6 ever expand to include Dartford stattion?


"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Nick" wrote in message
...

Are there any precedents for stations outside the Greater London

boundary
being in the Travelcard area?


Moor Park. I think Elstree might be as well.

The Epping Forest stations are also within the zones, but I think that the
council pays TfL for that.

Thames Ditton and Hampton Court - they weren't included when the zones came
in, but were added shortly afterwards.

The Cannon St - Sidcup - Abbey Wood - Cannon St roundabouts stray outside
Greater London between Crayford and Slade Green, but Travelcards are valid.

You can get to Dartford or Swanley on a travelcard, but you have to go by
bus.

Peter


  #5  
Old July 18th 03, 01:07 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Richard J.
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Posts: 1,429
Default Will Travelcard Zone 6 ever expand to include Dartford stattion?


"Dave" wrote in message
...
On SWT, Thames Ditton, Hampton Court and Stoneleigh are outside Greater
London. (Curiously Whyteleafe *could* just about be in Greater London,
but is outside Z6).


Unless the platforms are very long, Whyteleafe station is (just) outside
Greater London, as shown at
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.sr...&z=1&st=4&ar=N
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

  #6  
Old July 18th 03, 01:31 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Dave
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Posts: 121
Default Will Travelcard Zone 6 ever expand to include Dartford stattion?

Richard J. writes

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On SWT, Thames Ditton, Hampton Court and Stoneleigh are outside Greater
London. (Curiously Whyteleafe *could* just about be in Greater London,
but is outside Z6).


Unless the platforms are very long, Whyteleafe station is (just) outside
Greater London, as shown at
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/newmap.sr...&z=1&st=4&ar=N


It's a very close run thing.

To fit a 12-car train, the platforms would have to be at least 240m long
- assuming 20m per carriage. If built for 23m carriages it would need
to be 276m long.

At a rough guess (after looking at the map) a 250m long platform would
easily reach the boundary into Greater London - although it doesn't help
that the boundary line is about 50m wide, according to the map!

So to make the station outside the zones is *really* mean.

--
Dave
  #7  
Old July 18th 03, 08:50 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Nick
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Posts: 39
Default Will Travelcard Zone 6 ever expand to include Dartford stattion?

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...

"Nick" wrote in message
...
And to include Swanley?. Both stations are within the M25 area and are
included in the Freedom Pass area (and quite sensibly too...)

Dartford in particular is an important interchange for the three lines

to
the west through Bexley.

Are there any precedents for stations outside the Greater London

boundary
being in the Travelcard area?

Thames Ditton and Hampton Court stations are outside the GL boundary, and
when teh zonal scheme came in were outside the Travelcard boundary, but

this
was quickly amended to include them.

Grange Hill, Chigwell, Roding Valley and Loughton are olutside GL, but

have
always been included within Zone 6. Zone 6 has subsequently been extended

to
include the Loughton - Epping section of the Central Line.

Elstree is outside GL, but is now within Zone 6.

You can get to Dartford or Swanley using a Travelcard, but you have to
travel by bus. The Cannon Street - Sidcup - Abbey Wood - Cannon Street
roundabout trains stray across the GL boundary between Crayford and Slade
Green, but a Zone 6 Travelcard is valid.


Hmm, I can't understand why they won't consider inclusion of Dartford then.
Is it relatively a lot more expensive to include a national rail station
just outside then a tube station just outside? I guess so.

Dartford is such an important interchange for lines through an outer London
borough. The case is compelling, but TfL won't hear of it.

Actually, I can't believe it would actually cost *that* much in the grand
scheme of the TfL budget and would actually make a real difference for us
Z1-6 Travelcard holders...

Nick


  #8  
Old July 18th 03, 09:36 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Ben Nunn
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Posts: 94
Default Will Travelcard Zone 6 ever expand to include Dartford stattion?

Unless I'm very much mistaken, it was Nick ),
in message who said:
"Peter Masson" wrote in message

Dartford is such an important interchange for lines through an outer
London borough. The case is compelling, but TfL won't hear of it.

Actually, I can't believe it would actually cost *that* much in the
grand scheme of the TfL budget and would actually make a real
difference for us Z1-6 Travelcard holders...



It might cost *that* much if they have to give up the 2.50 made every time
someone with travelcard 1-6 cover wants to go there - as I did last
Saturday.

That's ridiculous, it really is. For half the cost of a 1-6 travelcard, and
all day travel across the entire capital, you get a return ticket from the
boundary to Dartford.

If anything, it would be more profitable for TfL to create more unzoned
enclaves, within the existing zonal system. Take Clapham Junction out of the
zones for example. They could make a fortune.

BTN


  #9  
Old July 18th 03, 10:12 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
Dave
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Will Travelcard Zone 6 ever expand to include Dartford stattion?

Ben Nunn writes
It might cost *that* much if they have to give up the 2.50 made every
time someone with travelcard 1-6 cover wants to go there - as I did
last Saturday.

That's ridiculous, it really is. For half the cost of a 1-6 travelcard,
and all day travel across the entire capital, you get a return ticket
from the boundary to Dartford.

If anything, it would be more profitable for TfL to create more unzoned
enclaves, within the existing zonal system. Take Clapham Junction out
of the zones for example. They could make a fortune.


And pray tell, precisely what do TfL have to do with the cost of a
boundary Z6 to Dartford ticket?

--
Dave
  #10  
Old July 18th 03, 12:17 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
D7666
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Posts: 529
Default Will Travelcard Zone 6 ever expand to include Dartford stattion?

"Nick" wrote in message

And to include Swanley?. Both stations are within the M25 area and are
included in the Freedom Pass area (and quite sensibly too...)

Dartford in particular is an important interchange for the three lines to
the west through Bexley.


The problem with this is where will it end.

If zone 6 is extended to include stations which are currently just
outside the existing area, then any stations which then lie outsdie an
enlarged area look as if they can be justified too.

IMHO, what needs to be looked at is not extending B6, but making a new
B7 as a new outer ring in the zone systems.

Else one ends up with the TC extending across the entire south east.
Such a ticket across the south east is probably needed, but then
starts to get complex.

--
| Nick Lawford
|
| read this backwards to contact me
|
| moc tod liamtoh ta drofwal erocsrednu kcin
 




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