This is my journey history for last Saturday. I was already expecting
this all to go wrong, and I think it did here... but can anyone tell
me exactly what happened?

Basically, I left from home and went to Bow Road where I met up with
friends, to then travel to Clapham Common together starting at Bow
Church. Because Bow Road - Bow Church is an official transfer I
suppose it saw that as a transfer and has put all the journeys
together into one long one, exceeding the 2 hour limit.
After that I went from Clapham Common to Oxford Circus for a quick
drink and then back to Hillingdon.

If anyone can explain to me what happened and tell me if it's possible
for me to claim money back, that'd be great. I have auto-top up set up
as well, which is why it added 20 pounds.

Here's a link to the journey history:
http://img.waffleimages.com/e8c5b57a...icture%201.png

On 12 Feb 2007 13:28:03 -0800, "sweek"
wrote:

This is my journey history for last Saturday. I was already expecting
this all to go wrong, and I think it did here... but can anyone tell
me exactly what happened?

Basically, I left from home and went to Bow Road where I met up with
friends, to then travel to Clapham Common together starting at Bow
Church. Because Bow Road - Bow Church is an official transfer I
suppose it saw that as a transfer and has put all the journeys
together into one long one, exceeding the 2 hour limit.
After that I went from Clapham Common to Oxford Circus for a quick
drink and then back to Hillingdon.

If anyone can explain to me what happened and tell me if it's possible
for me to claim money back, that'd be great. I have auto-top up set up
as well, which is why it added 20 pounds.

Here's a link to the journey history:
http://img.waffleimages.com/e8c5b57a...icture%201.png

I think the main issue here is that you went through two valid dlr - lul
out of station interchanges in short succession. Each time the card was
attempting to treat you as if you were still on your outward journey. As
you have correctly deduced you then got stymied at final exit at Clapham
Common because you exceeded the two hour limit hence the extra £4
charge.

This is really quite difficult in that you really made two separate
trips on your outward journey; Hillingdon - Bow and then Bow - Clapham
Common. However the fact you went through two OSIs in short succession
made it impossible for the system to determine that. I could foresee
"officialdom" arguing that you were attempting to use PAYG as some form
of rover ticket. The counterpoint to that is you can use it as a rover
if you make enough trips to trigger the cap! There is also nothing to
advise people where it may or may not be advantageous to meet friends on
interchange legs between stations ;-)

Judging from the record I think your charges should really have been

£2 + £1.50 + £1 + £1 + £1.50 + £2 = £9 but then capped down to £6.20.
You were actually charged £11.50 which I think is accounted for by the
£4 max fare less the £1.50 journey not charged between Bow and Clapham.
You also lose the benefit of the cap.

I have to say the journey record is bloody confusing as it does not
differentiate between additions and deductions at the entries and exits.
I had to write this down to work out what was going on.

There is probably no harm in you contacting the Oyster Help Desk. This
is quite a complex problem and I honestly don't know if they would make
the necessary adjustments for you or not as I don't know what ruleset
they work to.

HTH

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

11.50 instead of 6.20 is quite a big difference. I'll give them a call
tomorrow and explain what happened.
The journey history view is very confusing indeed, especially now that
it actually deducts money and then gives it back at the end of your
trip.
Thanks for the help!

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On 12 Feb 2007 13:28:03 -0800, "sweek"
wrote:

This is my journey history for last Saturday. I was already expecting
this all to go wrong, and I think it did here... but can anyone tell
me exactly what happened?

Basically, I left from home and went to Bow Road where I met up with
friends, to then travel to Clapham Common together starting at Bow
Church. Because Bow Road - Bow Church is an official transfer I
suppose it saw that as a transfer and has put all the journeys
together into one long one, exceeding the 2 hour limit.
After that I went from Clapham Common to Oxford Circus for a quick
drink and then back to Hillingdon.

If anyone can explain to me what happened and tell me if it's possible
for me to claim money back, that'd be great. I have auto-top up set up
as well, which is why it added 20 pounds.

Here's a link to the journey history:
http://img.waffleimages.com/e8c5b57a...icture%201.png

I think the main issue here is that you went through two valid dlr - lul
out of station interchanges in short succession. Each time the card was
attempting to treat you as if you were still on your outward journey. As
you have correctly deduced you then got stymied at final exit at Clapham
Common because you exceeded the two hour limit hence the extra £4
charge.

This is really quite difficult in that you really made two separate
trips on your outward journey; Hillingdon - Bow and then Bow - Clapham
Common. However the fact you went through two OSIs in short succession
made it impossible for the system to determine that. I could foresee
"officialdom" arguing that you were attempting to use PAYG as some form
of rover ticket.

What is daily capping meant to be if it isn't "some sort of rover ticket"?

tim

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:54:03 -0000, "tim....."
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .


This is really quite difficult in that you really made two separate
trips on your outward journey; Hillingdon - Bow and then Bow - Clapham
Common. However the fact you went through two OSIs in short succession
made it impossible for the system to determine that. I could foresee
"officialdom" arguing that you were attempting to use PAYG as some form
of rover ticket.

What is daily capping meant to be if it isn't "some sort of rover ticket"?

Which is exactly what I went on to say!

sigh
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"sweek" wrote in
oups.com:

This is my journey history for last Saturday. I was already expecting
this all to go wrong, and I think it did here... but can anyone tell
me exactly what happened?

Basically, I left from home and went to Bow Road where I met up with
friends, to then travel to Clapham Common together starting at Bow
Church. Because Bow Road - Bow Church is an official transfer I
suppose it saw that as a transfer and has put all the journeys
together into one long one, exceeding the 2 hour limit.
After that I went from Clapham Common to Oxford Circus for a quick
drink and then back to Hillingdon.

If anyone can explain to me what happened and tell me if it's possible
for me to claim money back, that'd be great. I have auto-top up set up
as well, which is why it added 20 pounds.

Here's a link to the journey history:
http://img.waffleimages.com/e8c5b57a...f2a85107186/Pi
cture%201.png





That's F***ing outrageous. Well done for having the foresight to do a
screen capture.

What happened indeed! I'll check my own Oyster more carefully in future,
I'm often surprised at how quickly it goes down when I'm on PAYG, but never
bother checking it.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:15:33 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

This is my journey history for last Saturday. I was already expecting
this all to go wrong, and I think it did here... but can anyone tell
me exactly what happened?

http://img.waffleimages.com/e8c5b57a...icture%201.png

I think the main issue here is that you went through two valid dlr - lul
out of station interchanges in short succession. Each time the card was
attempting to treat you as if you were still on your outward journey. As
you have correctly deduced you then got stymied at final exit at Clapham
Common because you exceeded the two hour limit hence the extra £4
charge.

ITYM £8.

Judging from the record I think your charges should really have been

£2 + £1.50 + £1 + £1 + £1.50 + £2 = £9 but then capped down to £6.20.
You were actually charged £11.50 which I think is accounted for by the
£4 max fare less the £1.50 journey not charged between Bow and Clapham.

He was actually charged £13.50. (£8 penalty + £5.50 in normal fares.)

(It's implied by the figures that he started the day with £7.90, but I
think you had it down as £5.90.)

I have to say the journey record is bloody confusing as it does not
differentiate between additions and deductions at the entries and exits.
I had to write this down to work out what was going on.

Indeed. The one given on the Tube touchscreen ticket machines is much
clearer - perhaps he could take a photo of that instead. ;-)

So yes, it charged me £4 for not touching out on my "first trip", £ 4
for not touching in on my "second trip", and the actual money for all
my real trips. And I did nicely touch in and out everywhere...

If only we had taken the tube from Bow Road again instead of the
DLR... Would've probably been just as quick to Clapham Common.

I'll definitely ring TfL tomorrow and see what they're going to say,
and keep you guys up to date.

Haha, he didn't get it at all, but in the end he just said "alright
you seem to know what you're on about tell me how much I should refund
you", so that did work out.

I have to say the journey record is bloody confusing as it does not
differentiate between additions and deductions at the entries and exits.
I had to write this down to work out what was going on.

I tend to make most of my journeys using validators rather than gates. It
seems that some of them show the balance you had before you touched in and
others show the balance after the £4 deduction.

I have to agree about the journey record as it is terribly confusing and it
must surely be easy enough to improve the display using colour or something.
What is also annoying is that it is not always complete. The one occasion I
did have problems (mentioned on this newsgroup) it completely omitted a
couple of lines causing the balance to jump which the Helpdesk missed until
I pointed it out. It has done this on other occasions, most notably failing
to record any of my journeys on Boxing Day at all.