In article ,
(Basil Jet) wrote:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:22:12
on Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Scott remarked:
I take it Boris will organise a competition to choose a new name
then.

He could take a leaf from modern marketing and call it "Your Circle
Line".

How about "New Circle"?

Like "New Labour" - doesn't join up?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article
,
(John B) wrote:

On Jun 25, 11:48*am, wrote:
The Wimbleware/Circle combination gives a one-change route between
Putney and King's Cross, avoiding humping child's buggy or heavy
luggage up and down footbridge stairs any more than necessary
(can't be avoided at East Putney). It's pretty reliable for same
platform interchange. Can't do that under new arrangements, and
that was true before they started cutting Wimbledon trains back
from Edgware Road to High St to add extra changes too.

One-change route: Putney - Earls Court - lift - Piccadilly line
-
Kings Cross - [lift from next year / escalator + lift with no stairs
now]

What exactly is the interchange at Earl's Court? AIUI the lifts are some
way apart and either serve the District platforms (two lifts) or the
Piccadilly platforms. Sounds a very long way from a same platform
interchange to me.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 25 June, 13:07, wrote:
In article
,

(Mizter T) wrote:
There's lots of discussion in this mega-epic DD thread concerning the
weekend trial and indeed the whole Tea cup concept - talk of the trial
starts on page 29:

http://districtdave.proboards.com/in...tion=display&t...
8139&page=29



There's a good deal of scepticism about it - FWIW some of those
commenting are involved in the operational railway (whilst others are
just observers), though I can't help but feel that some of the
opposition is just the innate conservatism and opposition to change
that always shows itself when a shake-up of the old ways is proposed.
As I've said downthread, if it makes the Circle line work better,
there's surely something to be said for it.

It seems to me a case of operator convenience overruling convenience for
(some) passengers.

Operators know more about things like signalling, track layouts and
routing. Passengers know more about what the problems of actually
getting on the right train to where they want to go.

While passengers should probably be more understanding of the problems
face by operators, the operators could do more to take into account
that there is no point in running the trains through the junctions in
the most efficient way if they aren't carrying passengers (who are on
the other side of the bridge, not having been told in time etc).

The purpose of the system must be to carry passengers; not to run
empty trains efficiently.

On 25 June, 09:41, wrote:
With the gap in just the wrong place if you want to get through Edgware
Road! :-((

--
Colin Rosenstiel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Which leads me on to a major (as yet unresolved by TfL) problem, which
unfortunately could only be tested in the peaks......

The fact is that the Paddington Eastbound Circle Line platform will
become practically redundant - useful only to those wishing to go to
Edgware Road! Hence all those commuters wanting to go further East
will attempt to use Padd H&C line platform. The (over)crowding in the
peaks currently is tantamount to dangerous - add all those using the
Padd Circle Line Eastbound platform and it'll be come so overcrowded
that it'll be dangerous.

TfL have realised this and have asked FGW to give up some of another
Padd platform to provide another entrance / exit - and they are in
discussions. But as it stands, I suspect the HSE will put the kibosh
on the idea unless a workable solution can be found. But I still can't
see the increased service on the H&C being able to carry the number of
Padd commuters wanting to use it after this change.

In message
, at
05:00:54 on Thu, 25 Jun 2009, John B remarked:
The Wimbleware/Circle combination gives a one-change route between Putney
and King's Cross, avoiding humping child's buggy or heavy luggage up and
down footbridge stairs any more than necessary (can't be avoided at East
Putney). It's pretty reliable for same platform interchange. Can't do that
under new arrangements, and that was true before they started cutting
Wimbledon trains back from Edgware Road to High St to add extra changes
too.

One-change route: Putney - Earls Court - lift - Piccadilly line -

Is that lift available from the District platforms. I seem to recall it
going from the upper (Eastern) concourse.

Kings Cross - [lift from next year

It's two lifts - one up to the barrier level, then the current lift to
the surface (outdoors, far from the station). Or they are also putting
in a "three lifts" solution - an extra one between the barrier level and
concourse, then a choice of lifts to various points at ground level.

/ escalator + lift with no stairs now]

--
Roland Perry

On Jun 25, 2:15*pm, Chris wrote:

On 25 June, 09:41, wrote:

With the gap in just the wrong place if you want to get through Edgware
Road! :-((

Which leads me on to a major (as yet unresolved by TfL) problem, which
unfortunately could only be tested in the peaks......

The fact is that the Paddington Eastbound Circle Line platform will
become practically redundant - useful only to those wishing to go to
Edgware Road! Hence all those commuters wanting to go further East
will attempt to use Padd H&C line platform. The (over)crowding in the
peaks currently is tantamount to dangerous - add all those using the
Padd Circle Line Eastbound platform and it'll be come so overcrowded
that it'll be dangerous.

TfL have realised this and have asked FGW to give up some of another
Padd platform to provide another entrance / exit - and they are in
discussions. But as it stands, I suspect the HSE will put the kibosh
on the idea unless a workable solution can be found. But I still can't
see the increased service on the H&C being able to carry the number of
Padd commuters wanting to use it after this change.


Yes, I certainly agree that this is one of the biggest issues with the
whole Teacup line plan - the crowding of the H&C line iplatforms. The
H&C line platforms at Paddington isn't really somewhere I've ended up
at much during the midst of the peak, so I can't attest to the
crowding of the island platform itself, however I've certainly seen
the congestion on the sole staircase that leads from the island
platform to the overbridge (especially if two trains going in opposite
directions arrive more or less at the same time but I think it's still
fairly apparent with just one train). There are people struggling up
the staircase with bags, and others at the top trying to weave their
way down to the platforms against the crowd surging their way up.
After getting off an H&C train recently I stayed at the back of the
queue and watched just to see how long it took for the platform and
staircase to clear - and I asked the member of staff at the base of
the stairs whether it's always as busy, to which they responded very
much in the affirmative.

I don't quite understand how FGW giving up a platform would help
matters... unless they were to surrender platform 14 to LU, which
could then become the eastbound Circle/Teacup platform. That would of
course involve some fairly significant works to realign the LU running
lines, and I'm pretty sure FGW could afford to give up a platform at
Paddington anyway could they?

Once Crossrail comes, then there will be more room for manoeuvre at
Paddington as many of the suburban services will transfer to Crossrail
and hence won't need high-level platforms. Plus Crossrail would of
course take some of the pressure off LU at Paddington anyway, as pax
stayed on their Crossrail train to reach further into central London
or across into the City and beyond. So maybe the Teacup line plan is
rather before its time, and would be better suited to a post-Crossrail
London?

wrote in message

In article
,
(John B) wrote:

On Jun 25, 11:48 am, wrote:
The Wimbleware/Circle combination gives a one-change route between
Putney and King's Cross, avoiding humping child's buggy or heavy
luggage up and down footbridge stairs any more than necessary
(can't be avoided at East Putney). It's pretty reliable for same
platform interchange. Can't do that under new arrangements, and
that was true before they started cutting Wimbledon trains back
from Edgware Road to High St to add extra changes too.

One-change route: Putney - Earls Court - lift - Piccadilly line
-
Kings Cross - [lift from next year / escalator + lift with no stairs
now]

What exactly is the interchange at Earl's Court? AIUI the lifts are
some way apart and either serve the District platforms (two lifts) or
the Piccadilly platforms. Sounds a very long way from a same platform
interchange to me.

Presumably Picc platform levelliftconcourseliftDistrict platfrom
level

"MIG" wrote in message

On 25 June, 13:07, wrote:
In article
,

(Mizter T) wrote:
There's lots of discussion in this mega-epic DD thread concerning
the weekend trial and indeed the whole Tea cup concept - talk of
the trial starts on page 29:

http://districtdave.proboards.com/in...tion=display&t...
8139&page=29



There's a good deal of scepticism about it - FWIW some of those
commenting are involved in the operational railway (whilst others
are just observers), though I can't help but feel that some of the
opposition is just the innate conservatism and opposition to change
that always shows itself when a shake-up of the old ways is
proposed. As I've said downthread, if it makes the Circle line work
better, there's surely something to be said for it.

It seems to me a case of operator convenience overruling convenience
for (some) passengers.

Operators know more about things like signalling, track layouts and
routing. Passengers know more about what the problems of actually
getting on the right train to where they want to go.

While passengers should probably be more understanding of the problems
face by operators, the operators could do more to take into account
that there is no point in running the trains through the junctions in
the most efficient way if they aren't carrying passengers (who are on
the other side of the bridge, not having been told in time etc).

The purpose of the system must be to carry passengers; not to run
empty trains efficiently.

I assume the other option to 'break the Circle' would be to make use of
the vacated FCC tracks at Barbican to provide a (turnback) siding or
additional platform for Circle line trains. This might, for example, be
used to hold a spare train to be deployed if the there's a big gap in
Circle services, with one of the bunched trains then replacing it there.

On Jun 25, 1:26*pm, wrote:
In article
,

(John B) wrote:
On Jun 25, 11:48*am, wrote:
The Wimbleware/Circle combination gives a one-change route between
Putney and King's Cross, avoiding humping child's buggy or heavy
luggage up and down footbridge stairs any more than necessary
(can't be avoided at East Putney). It's pretty reliable for same
platform interchange. Can't do that under new arrangements, and
that was true before they started cutting Wimbledon trains back
from Edgware Road to High St to add extra changes too.

One-change route: Putney - Earls Court - lift - Piccadilly line
-
Kings Cross - [lift from next year / escalator + lift with no stairs
now]

What exactly is the interchange at Earl's Court? AIUI the lifts are some
way apart and either serve the District platforms (two lifts) or the
Piccadilly platforms. Sounds a very long way from a same platform
interchange to me.

There's a lift from the Piccadilly platforms direct to the District
platforms. Not quite same-platform (although as mentioned upthread if
you really need same-platform there's always the option of an
Upminster train and a change to a Circle in the City), but not too
heinous either.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

"John B" wrote in message

On Jun 25, 1:26 pm, wrote:
In article
,

(John B) wrote:
On Jun 25, 11:48 am, wrote:
The Wimbleware/Circle combination gives a one-change route between
Putney and King's Cross, avoiding humping child's buggy or heavy
luggage up and down footbridge stairs any more than necessary
(can't be avoided at East Putney). It's pretty reliable for same
platform interchange. Can't do that under new arrangements, and
that was true before they started cutting Wimbledon trains back
from Edgware Road to High St to add extra changes too.

One-change route: Putney - Earls Court - lift - Piccadilly line
-
Kings Cross - [lift from next year / escalator + lift with no
stairs now]

What exactly is the interchange at Earl's Court? AIUI the lifts are
some way apart and either serve the District platforms (two lifts)
or the Piccadilly platforms. Sounds a very long way from a same
platform interchange to me.

There's a lift from the Piccadilly platforms direct to the District
platforms. Not quite same-platform (although as mentioned upthread if
you really need same-platform there's always the option of an
Upminster train and a change to a Circle in the City), but not too
heinous either.

Where is it? I use that interchange (escalator+stairs) from time to
time, and have never noticed a lift option.