On 19 Oct, 18:46, "Mizter T" wrote:
On Oct 19, 5:23 pm, MIG wrote:





If this is true, how on Earth can I have missed it? *Several SET staff
absolutely convinced that NR journeys do not contribute to the daily
cap.

Checking the fares on TfL, it's difficult to prove definitively that
they should.

Although this pagehttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14837.aspxoffers a
link which appears to be linking to the cap for "Tube, DLR, London
Overground and National Rail", the page it links to only mentions LO,
not NR.

If you look at this pagehttp://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14414.aspx
although there's mention of capping on NR "through fares", there's no
mention of capping if you do an NR-only journey.

I am staggered. *I really thought that PAYG capping was finally the
equivalent of a day travelcard, but if this is correct, then I have
been a fool.

They're *absolutely wrong* - Oyster PAYG capping applies to NR journeys too,
no question at all whatsoever. They're the ones in a cave, not you.

I was equally absolutely convinced that they were absolutely wrong
when they offered it as the reason why capping hadn't worked.

It was only when I looked for documentary evidence that I had some
difficulty.

It was grippers at the barrier who issued the PF, but then I went to
the ticket office where the regular person was equally adamant that
the cap didn't apply "I think it should as well ... people are always
getting confused; they think they can put £5.60 on and travel up and
down any number of times ... but will keep adding £2.10." Back at
the barrier, the other staff had a similar story about someone who
went to barnet and back (off peak) a few times and got charged for
several several journeys.

They even said "Did you buy it at a newsagents? Some of them are
telling people that they are putting a travelcard on it, but there is
no capping on the trains ..."

It was difficult to argue against three people all equally convinced
that capping only worked on LU and DLR.

Does it really explain what happened to me today? *I can't really see
how. *At lunchtime I had £5.80 credit.

Then I did one LU + NR journey @ £1.80
balance £4.00

Later, I went to Lewisham to get a train to Victoria, missed it and
went via Cannon Street and LU @ £2.80,
balance £1.20

After less than 40 minutes, I now realise, despite doing nothing
anoraky, but just picking up some stuff, I touched in at Victoria NR,
which bleeped open the gate showing a balance of £1.20.

I expected to be charged £1 up to the off-peak zone 1 - 2 cap, but
instead couldn't get out at Lewisham. *The staff there checked my card
and claimed that I hadn't touched in at Victoria and that my balance
was -£0.30. *They issued a penalty fare.

A printout from the ticket office shows that I did touch in at
Victoria and was charged £1.50, leaving the -£0.30.

When I worked out the 40-minute issue, I thougth "aha, I've been
caught out by the OSI journey timeout" but, given the adamancy of the
staff, I discovered the rather unsatisfactory information about which
journeys the cap applies to.

It looks like you were indeed hit by the OSI journey timeout at Victoria
(i.e. all the journeys got joined together).

Yes indeed this was the real reason for my overcharging, to which the
capping issue was an enormous sideshow.

I can't work out the £1.50 though. The whole journey would have been
less than two hours. The £1.50 seems to be the "touch in and straight
back out at the same station" fare, but why apply it after so many
intervening touches? I wasn't charged the "maximum" fare.


Was this a registered card? If so I guess you might get an email about a
refund from Oyster CS in the next few days w.r.t. the Oyster over charge
(Oyster CS won't be in the loop about the PF though).

No, but it might be fixed automatically or after a phone call. The
50p is nothing in comparison. It's all very well these things being
fixed later, but when it leaves punters clobbered with penalty fares,
it's really out of order. I don't understand why it wouldn't just let
me out with minus 30p anyway.




In the meantime, I've been hit with liability for the balance of a
penalty fare, having paid £2.40 towards it, under threat of
administration costs and legal action if I don't pay up pronto.

Regardless of anything else, that sounds like a totally illegit way of
issuing a penalty fare - or do they really have the power to ask for
(part-)payment there and then?

I didn't think they had, but it's gone in the record, so they aren't
hiding it. They seemed to be doing it deliberately to take less cash
off me on the assumption that I was going to appeal.


I worry that initially at least the fact that you've part paid the PF might
mean that 'they' (i.e. the TOC) consider you've accepted the PF and hence
cannot then appeal, I dunno about that though.

Well, who knows. There are so many "training" issues here, that who
knows what is what.