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Old October 24th 11, 12:14 PM posted to
Recliner[_2_] Recliner[_2_] is offline
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Default Tube Plan To Axe 1,500 Jobs And Close All But 30 Ticket Offices

"Paul" wrote in message

On Oct 24, 12:05 pm, "Recliner" wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message

Just came across this on BBC News

Can't help thinking that Tfl are being a bit optimistic if they
think that only 20% of trains will be manually operated by 2017 and
all lines will have fully remote train operations by 2020. Would
that not require completely new trains track and signalling on the
affected lines?

The only "fully remote" metro I have used is the VAL system in
Lille, and the trains there are far too small to be able to cope
with the crowds in London. "Fully remote" operation would require
platform edge doors at every station, and I would be very surprised
if that could be achieved in 9 years, given current budget

Ticket office closures, reductions in hours and job losses are more
likely though (I would have thought) However given TfL's recent
experience with the unions, this is more likely to happen gradually
over a number of years rather than in one fell swoop.

I don't think it suggests unmanned trains, just that DLR-style
would spread across other lines as new automated trains are
All existing LU trains from the 1992 stock onwards are capable of
driven automatically, and the driver's role is already reduced to
of the door close button operator, something that could be done just
well from control stations anywhere along the train, and not just
from a
closed cab. Once the 1972 and 73 stocks have been replaced, there
be any remaining pure manual LU trains.

Automatically driven trains have been in use in other places for
decades (eg, Vancouver's

See the longer version of this story in the

Obviously you need to filter out Bob Crow's remarks, which directly
contradict the proposals (eg, they are *not* suggesting unstaffed
stations, unmanned service trains or closing every ticket office).-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I take your point about automated trains - and indeed trains on the
Victoria Line have always been automated. However, the rolling stock
has been built on the assumption that there will be someone in the cab
to press the start button etc. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't
think it is a simple matter to adapt these trains so that this
operation can be performed remotely from a control centre.

Perhaps what they are talking about is that future new rolling stock
will be built so that it is like the current DLR trains, whereby the
door closing and opening can be done from anywhere along the train.
However, all DLR trains can be driven manually if required so this
feature would have to be incorporated into tube rolling stock.

Yes, that's pretty much what it says. I think the operator will still
be in charge of closing the doors, but won't normally sit in the cab (in
fact, future trains may not have a cab as such). There would be control
stations along the train, just as in the DLR, so the operator can move
along the train, closing the doors from any of the several/many control
points (obviously a key will be needed). This isn't all that different
to the old guard's positions that used to be located in passenger

No doubt, manual driving will still be possible, just as in the DLR, but
this will probably be only used in emergencies, and at restricted speed.

Existing (modern) rolling stock would be modified to work the same way,
with door closing buttons fitted in, say, one or two doors on each side
of each car, so the operator could be stationed in any car of the train
(and in emergencies, this could also be done remotely, say by a
dispatcher on the platform). This work would presumably be carried out
as part of a mid-life heavy overhaul of the 1995/6 stocks (I assume the
1992 stock would probably be replaced by the new Picc/Bakerloo stock
build rather than modified). I assume that the new Victoria line stock
has been built this requirement in mind.

Obviously what Bob Crow doesn't like is that this de-skills the train
drivers, thus reducing their negotiating power. Many more staff could be
provided with the necessary training, so drivers wouldn't achieve much
by striking.