Re: uk.railway - gone

[Recliner[_4_]]

Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a distributed system
> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access. I was able
> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>
> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the beginning of time.
> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers reasonable
> keyword and baysean filtering.
>

Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are part of
Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of all the
drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the group is
dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.

[[email protected]]

On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:32:43 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner > wrote:
>Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
>> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a distributed system
>
>> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access. I was
>able
>> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>>
>> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the beginning of
>time.
>> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers reasonable
>
>> keyword and baysean filtering.
>>
>
>Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are part of
>Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
>invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of all the
>drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the group is
>dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.
>

I'm curious as to which drug dealers are so dumb they think the demographic
on usenet would be the slightest bit interested in their wares. They'd be
far better off spamming snapchat or tiktok in some way.

[Roland Perry]

In message >, at 16:02:42 on Sun, 11 Oct
2020, remarked:
>On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:32:43 -0000 (UTC)
>Recliner > wrote:
>>Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
>>> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a
>>>distributed system
>>
>>> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access. I was
>>able
>>> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>>>
>>> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the beginning of
>>time.
>>> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers
>>>reasonable
>>
>>> keyword and baysean filtering.
>>>
>>
>>Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are part of
>>Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
>>invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of all the
>>drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the group is
>>dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.
>
>I'm curious as to which drug dealers are so dumb they think the demographic
>on usenet would be the slightest bit interested in their wares. They'd be
>far better off spamming snapchat or tiktok in some way.

What's going on here is that the people purporting to sell the drugs
(let's assume for now they aren't actually trying to propagate
drive-by-malware) are sold a package of 'places/people we'll spam for
you' by a broker.

It's the broker who adds Usenet to that portfolio, and frankly the
spammers don't have much of an incentive to try to reduce the price by
asking them to desist from spamming Usenet.
--
Roland Perry

[Recliner[_4_]]

> wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:32:43 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner > wrote:
>> Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
>>> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a distributed system
>>
>>> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access. I was
>> able
>>> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>>>
>>> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the beginning of
>> time.
>>> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers reasonable
>>
>>> keyword and baysean filtering.
>>>
>>
>> Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are part of
>> Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
>> invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of all the
>> drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the group is
>> dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.
>>
>
> I'm curious as to which drug dealers are so dumb they think the demographic
> on usenet would be the slightest bit interested in their wares. They'd be
> far better off spamming snapchat or tiktok in some way.
>
>

I'm pretty sure their automated scripts simply target the few groups that
still have much traffic. They probably pay little attention to its subject,
though I notice that a few did seem to acknowledge that it was a uk group.
That's obviously something that might be automated, too.

We don't know, of course, how many of them actually have drugs to sell, or
if they're just after the punters' money. They might just be the successors
of the Nigerian princes with a fortune to share.

[Certes]

On 11/10/2020 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message >, at 16:02:42 on Sun, 11 Oct
> 2020, remarked:
>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:32:43 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner > wrote:
>>> Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
>>>> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a
>>>> distributed system
>>>
>>>> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access.
>>>> I was
>>> able
>>>> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>>>>
>>>> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the
>>>> beginning of
>>> time.
>>>> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers
>>>> reasonable
>>>
>>>> keyword and baysean filtering.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are part of
>>> Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
>>> invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of
>>> all the
>>> drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the
>>> group is
>>> dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.
>>
>> I'm curious as to which drug dealers are so dumb they think the
>> demographic
>> on usenet would be the slightest bit interested in their wares. They'd be
>> far better off spamming snapchat or tiktok in some way.
>
> What's going on here is that the people purporting to sell the drugs
> (let's assume for now they aren't actually trying to propagate
> drive-by-malware) are sold a package of 'places/people we'll spam for
> you' by a broker.
>
> It's the broker who adds Usenet to that portfolio, and frankly the
> spammers don't have much of an incentive to try to reduce the price by
> asking them to desist from spamming Usenet.

Perhaps they have never heard of Usenet but target Google Groups, seeing
Google as a young trendy company with products attractive to drug users.
From their perspective, Google Groups used to run a forum called
uk.railway which has now been banned by Google and no longer exists.

[Recliner[_4_]]

Certes > wrote:
> On 11/10/2020 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message >, at 16:02:42 on Sun, 11 Oct
>> 2020, remarked:
>>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:32:43 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner > wrote:
>>>> Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
>>>>> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a
>>>>> distributed system
>>>>
>>>>> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access.
>>>>> I was
>>>> able
>>>>> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the
>>>>> beginning of
>>>> time.
>>>>> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers
>>>>> reasonable
>>>>
>>>>> keyword and baysean filtering.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are part of
>>>> Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
>>>> invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of
>>>> all the
>>>> drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the
>>>> group is
>>>> dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.
>>>
>>> I'm curious as to which drug dealers are so dumb they think the
>>> demographic
>>> on usenet would be the slightest bit interested in their wares. They'd be
>>> far better off spamming snapchat or tiktok in some way.
>>
>> What's going on here is that the people purporting to sell the drugs
>> (let's assume for now they aren't actually trying to propagate
>> drive-by-malware) are sold a package of 'places/people we'll spam for
>> you' by a broker.
>>
>> It's the broker who adds Usenet to that portfolio, and frankly the
>> spammers don't have much of an incentive to try to reduce the price by
>> asking them to desist from spamming Usenet.
>
> Perhaps they have never heard of Usenet but target Google Groups, seeing
> Google as a young trendy company with products attractive to drug users.
> From their perspective, Google Groups used to run a forum called
> uk.railway which has now been banned by Google and no longer exists.
>

Yes, that's probably about it. I don't suppose they ever tried to track how
many orders they got via this channel (almost certainly zero).

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 01:56:55 +0100
Certes > wrote:
>On 11/10/2020 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message >, at 16:02:42 on Sun, 11 Oct
>> It's the broker who adds Usenet to that portfolio, and frankly the
>> spammers don't have much of an incentive to try to reduce the price by
>> asking them to desist from spamming Usenet.
>
>Perhaps they have never heard of Usenet but target Google Groups, seeing
>Google as a young trendy company with products attractive to drug users.
> From their perspective, Google Groups used to run a forum called
>uk.railway which has now been banned by Google and no longer exists.

Can only be a good thing long term. I suspect the only people who access
this group via google is the spammers.

[Recliner[_4_]]

> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 01:56:55 +0100
> Certes > wrote:
>> On 11/10/2020 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message >, at 16:02:42 on Sun, 11 Oct
>>> It's the broker who adds Usenet to that portfolio, and frankly the
>>> spammers don't have much of an incentive to try to reduce the price by
>>> asking them to desist from spamming Usenet.
>>
>> Perhaps they have never heard of Usenet but target Google Groups, seeing
>> Google as a young trendy company with products attractive to drug users.
>> From their perspective, Google Groups used to run a forum called
>> uk.railway which has now been banned by Google and no longer exists.
>
> Can only be a good thing long term. I suspect the only people who access
> this group via google is the spammers.

No, there were legitimate users as well — hence this thread on uk.transprt.

One person who may or may not be missed is Marcus Potter. He kept telling
us how computer literate he was, so I wonder if he'll find a way back?

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 08:20:50 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner > wrote:
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 01:56:55 +0100
>> Certes > wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2020 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message >, at 16:02:42 on Sun, 11 Oct
>>>> It's the broker who adds Usenet to that portfolio, and frankly the
>>>> spammers don't have much of an incentive to try to reduce the price by
>>>> asking them to desist from spamming Usenet.
>>>
>>> Perhaps they have never heard of Usenet but target Google Groups, seeing
>>> Google as a young trendy company with products attractive to drug users.
>>> From their perspective, Google Groups used to run a forum called
>>> uk.railway which has now been banned by Google and no longer exists.
>>
>> Can only be a good thing long term. I suspect the only people who access
>> this group via google is the spammers.
>
>No, there were legitimate users as well — hence this thread on uk.transprt.
>
>One person who may or may not be missed is Marcus Potter. He kept telling
>us how computer literate he was, so I wonder if he'll find a way back?

If his idea of computer literacy is just using a web browser then probably not.
But while aioe.org is still free to use there's no excuse for people with
a bit of IT nous not being on usenet.

[Sam Wilson[_2_]]

Certes > wrote:
> On 11/10/2020 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message >, at 16:02:42 on Sun, 11 Oct
>> 2020, remarked:
>>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:32:43 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner > wrote:
>>>> Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
>>>>> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a
>>>>> distributed system
>>>>
>>>>> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access.
>>>>> I was
>>>> able
>>>>> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the
>>>>> beginning of
>>>> time.
>>>>> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers
>>>>> reasonable
>>>>
>>>>> keyword and baysean filtering.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are part of
>>>> Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
>>>> invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of
>>>> all the
>>>> drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the
>>>> group is
>>>> dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.
>>>
>>> I'm curious as to which drug dealers are so dumb they think the
>>> demographic
>>> on usenet would be the slightest bit interested in their wares. They'd be
>>> far better off spamming snapchat or tiktok in some way.
>>
>> What's going on here is that the people purporting to sell the drugs
>> (let's assume for now they aren't actually trying to propagate
>> drive-by-malware) are sold a package of 'places/people we'll spam for
>> you' by a broker.
>>
>> It's the broker who adds Usenet to that portfolio, and frankly the
>> spammers don't have much of an incentive to try to reduce the price by
>> asking them to desist from spamming Usenet.
>
> Perhaps they have never heard of Usenet but target Google Groups, seeing
> Google as a young trendy company with products attractive to drug users.
> From their perspective, Google Groups used to run a forum called
> uk.railway which has now been banned by Google and no longer exists.

Interestingly I’ve seen one Ketamine etc ad since the cut off, ostensibly
injected into Usenet from XSUsenet.com with no sign of Google in the Path:
header or elsewhere.

I don’t know who XSUsenet are and I’m not sure I want to poke too hard.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as
Spit the dummy to reply

[MikeS[_2_]]

On 12/10/2020 10:07, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Certes > wrote:
>> On 11/10/2020 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message >, at 16:02:42 on Sun, 11 Oct
>>> 2020, remarked:
>>>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:32:43 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Recliner > wrote:
>>>>> Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
>>>>>> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a
>>>>>> distributed system
>>>>>
>>>>>> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access.
>>>>>> I was
>>>>> able
>>>>>> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the
>>>>>> beginning of
>>>>> time.
>>>>>> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers
>>>>>> reasonable
>>>>>
>>>>>> keyword and baysean filtering.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are part of
>>>>> Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
>>>>> invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of
>>>>> all the
>>>>> drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the
>>>>> group is
>>>>> dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.
>>>>
>>>> I'm curious as to which drug dealers are so dumb they think the
>>>> demographic
>>>> on usenet would be the slightest bit interested in their wares. They'd be
>>>> far better off spamming snapchat or tiktok in some way.
>>>
>>> What's going on here is that the people purporting to sell the drugs
>>> (let's assume for now they aren't actually trying to propagate
>>> drive-by-malware) are sold a package of 'places/people we'll spam for
>>> you' by a broker.
>>>
>>> It's the broker who adds Usenet to that portfolio, and frankly the
>>> spammers don't have much of an incentive to try to reduce the price by
>>> asking them to desist from spamming Usenet.
>>
>> Perhaps they have never heard of Usenet but target Google Groups, seeing
>> Google as a young trendy company with products attractive to drug users.
>> From their perspective, Google Groups used to run a forum called
>> uk.railway which has now been banned by Google and no longer exists.
>
> Interestingly I’ve seen one Ketamine etc ad since the cut off, ostensibly
> injected into Usenet from XSUsenet.com with no sign of Google in the Path:
> header or elsewhere.
>
> I don’t know who XSUsenet are and I’m not sure I want to poke too hard.
>
> Sam
>
Much of the drug etc spam on Usenet seems to arrive via Google so it
would be best if they drop all Usenet groups.

Usenet was designed to use with clients and there are still plenty of
free PC ones. I cannot understand why anyone in this thread is lamenting
the loss of access from Google Groups except perhaps the dearth of free
Usenet clients to use on a phone.

[Certes]

On 12/10/2020 15:36, MikeS wrote:
> On 12/10/2020 10:07, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Certes > wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2020 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message >, at 16:02:42 on Sun, 11 Oct
>>>> 2020, remarked:
>>>>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:32:43 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Recliner > wrote:
>>>>>> Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
>>>>>>> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a
>>>>>>> distributed system
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access.
>>>>>>> I was
>>>>>> able
>>>>>>> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the
>>>>>>> beginning of
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers
>>>>>>> reasonable
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> keyword and baysean filtering.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are
>>>>>> part of
>>>>>> Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
>>>>>> invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of
>>>>>> all the
>>>>>> drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the
>>>>>> group is
>>>>>> dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm curious as to which drug dealers are so dumb they think the
>>>>> demographic
>>>>> on usenet would be the slightest bit interested in their wares.
>>>>> They'd be
>>>>> far better off spamming snapchat or tiktok in some way.
>>>>
>>>> What's going on here is that the people purporting to sell the drugs
>>>> (let's assume for now they aren't actually trying to propagate
>>>> drive-by-malware) are sold a package of 'places/people we'll spam for
>>>> you' by a broker.
>>>>
>>>> It's the broker who adds Usenet to that portfolio, and frankly the
>>>> spammers don't have much of an incentive to try to reduce the price by
>>>> asking them to desist from spamming Usenet.
>>>
>>> Perhaps they have never heard of Usenet but target Google Groups, seeing
>>> Google as a young trendy company with products attractive to drug users.
>>> Â*From their perspective, Google Groups used to run a forum called
>>> uk.railway which has now been banned by Google and no longer exists.
>>
>> Interestingly I’ve seen one Ketamine etc ad since the cut off, ostensibly
>> injected into Usenet from XSUsenet.com with no sign of Google in the
>> Path:
>> header or elsewhere.
>>
>> I don’t know who XSUsenet are and I’m not sure I want to poke too hard.
>>
>> Sam
>>
> Much of the drug etc spam on Usenet seems to arrive via Google so it
> would be best if they drop all Usenet groups.
>
> Usenet was designed to use with clients and there are still plenty of
> free PC ones. I cannot understand why anyone in this thread is lamenting
> the loss of access from Google Groups except perhaps the dearth of free
> Usenet clients to use on a phone.

Google Groups was as easy to search as any other website. Usenet isn't.

[Roland Perry]

In message >, at 15:36:04 on Mon, 12 Oct
2020, MikeS > remarked:

>I cannot understand why anyone in this thread is lamenting the loss of
>access from Google Groups except perhaps the dearth of free Usenet
>clients to use on a phone.

It's the archive search which is most important.
--
Roland Perry

[[email protected]]

On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 16:50:39 +0100
Roland Perry > wrote:
>In message >, at 15:36:04 on Mon, 12 Oct
>2020, MikeS > remarked:
>
>>I cannot understand why anyone in this thread is lamenting the loss of
>>access from Google Groups except perhaps the dearth of free Usenet
>>clients to use on a phone.
>
>It's the archive search which is most important.

If it leads to the end of "But 5 years ago you wrote this...","Yes but 7 years
ago you stated...." type threads that go on forever it can only be a good thing.

[Recliner[_4_]]

Roland Perry > wrote:
> In message >, at 15:36:04 on Mon, 12 Oct
> 2020, MikeS > remarked:
>
>> I cannot understand why anyone in this thread is lamenting the loss of
>> access from Google Groups except perhaps the dearth of free Usenet
>> clients to use on a phone.
>
> It's the archive search which is most important.

Yes. I'd be happy if GG still actively hosted the group on a read-only,
searchable basis. We don't need posts from GG, but it would be nice if GG
users could read posts from elsewhere.

[Christopher A. Lee[_2_]]

On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 16:50:39 +0100, Roland Perry >
wrote:

>In message >, at 15:36:04 on Mon, 12 Oct
>2020, MikeS > remarked:
>
>>I cannot understand why anyone in this thread is lamenting the loss of
>>access from Google Groups except perhaps the dearth of free Usenet
>>clients to use on a phone.
>
>It's the archive search which is most important.

Which they broke many years ago.

[MikeS[_2_]]

On 12/10/2020 16:50, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message >, at 15:36:04 on Mon, 12 Oct
> 2020, MikeS > remarked:
>
>> I cannot understand why anyone in this thread is lamenting the loss of
>> access from Google Groups except perhaps the dearth of free Usenet
>> clients to use on a phone.
>
> It's the archive search which is most important.

TBH I cannot say I have ever wanted to search old Usenet posts but those
of you suffering withdrawal symptoms might like to take a look here
http://www.harley.com/usenet/usenet-tutorial/usenet-search-engines-nzb-files.html
For anyone really desperate there is also the expensive Giganews archive.

[Bill Borland[_2_]]

In article >, Sam Wilson
astmail.co.uk> writes
<big snip>
>
>I don’t know who XSUsenet are and I’m not sure I want to poke too hard.
>

XSUsenet.com is a news-reader (or do I mean "client"?) which (a) is free
and (b) carries binary groups like alt.binaries.pictures.rail.
--
Bill Borland

[Eric[_3_]]

On 2020-10-12, Bill Borland > wrote:
> In article >, Sam Wilson
> astmail.co.uk> writes
> <big snip>
>>
>>I don’t know who XSUsenet are and I’m not sure I want to poke too hard.
>>
>
> XSUsenet.com is a news-reader (or do I mean "client"?) which (a) is free
> and (b) carries binary groups like alt.binaries.pictures.rail.

XSUsenet is not a news-reader (or any other sort of client), it is a
provider, which is why it can "carry" a binary group if it feels like it.
There is a free account type, but you can't post through it. I have
no direct experience, but it seems to live in the same market niche
as Giganews.

I have a suspicion that any usenet provider with paid accounts, binary
groups, and a VPN product is making most of its money from those who
want binary groups which are not at all like alt.binaries.pictures.rail .

Eric
--
ms fnd in a lbry

[Scott]

On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:32:43 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> wrote:

>Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
>> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a distributed system
>> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access. I was able
>> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>>
>> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the beginning of time.
>> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers reasonable
>> keyword and baysean filtering.
>>
>Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are part of
>Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
>invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of all the
>drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the group is
>dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.
>
My sense of history is that Usenet predated the Internet.

[Graeme Wall]

On 13/10/2020 18:47, Scott wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:32:43 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> > wrote:
>
>> Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
>>> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a distributed system
>>> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access. I was able
>>> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>>>
>>> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the beginning of time.
>>> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers reasonable
>>> keyword and baysean filtering.
>>>
>> Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are part of
>> Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
>> invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of all the
>> drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the group is
>> dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.
>>
> My sense of history is that Usenet predated the Internet.
>

ITYM Usenet predated the World Wide Web

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

[Mark Goodge]

On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 18:47:56 +0100, Scott
> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:32:43 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
> wrote:
>
>>Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
>>> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a distributed system
>>> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access. I was able
>>> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>>>
>>> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the beginning of time.
>>> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers reasonable
>>> keyword and baysean filtering.
>>>
>>Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are part of
>>Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
>>invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of all the
>>drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the group is
>>dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.
>>
>My sense of history is that Usenet predated the Internet.

Sort of. It predates public access to the Internet, but the Internet's
antecendants go back a lot further than that. And the term "Internet"
was in use (albeit as only one protocol of what was then still ARPANET)
as early as the 1970s. Internet Protocol version 4 (IPv4) was first
documented in 1981, in RFC 791, which is slightly earlier than the first
documentation of Usenet in RFC 850 (in 1983). Although, of course,
Usenet, in a form that we would recognise as such, was in early use
before that.

It's probably more true to say that the Internet and Usenet originally
evolved separately, but converged in the early 1980s. RFC 850 explicitly
states that Usenet messages should be formatted as valid ARPANET mail
messages, even if not transmitted via ARPANET.

Mark

[Recliner[_4_]]

Graeme Wall > wrote:
> On 13/10/2020 18:47, Scott wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:32:43 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
>>>> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a distributed system
>>>> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access. I was able
>>>> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>>>>
>>>> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the beginning of time.
>>>> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers reasonable
>>>> keyword and baysean filtering.
>>>>
>>> Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are part of
>>> Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
>>> invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of all the
>>> drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the group is
>>> dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.
>>>
>> My sense of history is that Usenet predated the Internet.
>>
>
> ITYM Usenet predated the World Wide Web
>

Yes, I was accessing usenet before the Web, more than 25 years ago. In the
early days of the Web, of course, there wasn't much available, and it was
hard to find. No one search engine could find everything, so I had a group
search utility that fired off searches on half a dozen different engines,
then aggregated and ranked their results. All via dial-up, of course. It
made each search a project in its own right

[John Levine[_2_]]

In article >,
Graeme Wall > wrote:
>> My sense of history is that Usenet predated the Internet.
>
>ITYM Usenet predated the World Wide Web

Both, really. In its first decade, Usenet traffic mostly went over
dial-up phone connections using uucp. I think I still have the Telebit
modem card I got because it had special coding to make uucp data
transfer faster. I unsoldered the UART chip and installed a socket for
a better one that made it easier or my 386 Unix box to keep up.

We had gateways to the Internet but in that era there weren't a lot of
usenet sites on the Internet. That changed around the time the Web
appeared.

--
Regards,
John Levine, , Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

MikeS > wrote:
> On 12/10/2020 10:07, Sam Wilson wrote:
>> Certes > wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2020 17:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message >, at 16:02:42 on Sun, 11 Oct
>>>> 2020, remarked:
>>>>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2020 11:32:43 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Recliner > wrote:
>>>>>> Arthur Conan Doyle > wrote:
>>>>>>> Or you could just use a different news server. Usenet is a
>>>>>>> distributed system
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and thankfully, Google does not control it, they just offer access.
>>>>>>> I was
>>>>>> able
>>>>>>> to add uk.railway from astraweb and downloaded over 1m headers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Spam in unmoderated Usenet groups has been around since the
>>>>>>> beginning of
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>> The traditional way of dealing with it is a newsreader than offers
>>>>>>> reasonable
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> keyword and baysean filtering.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately there are people who think that usenet groups are part of
>>>>>> Google Groups, and not something that existed long before Google was
>>>>>> invented. So when GG cuts off access to a usenet group, because of
>>>>>> all the
>>>>>> drug spam that was being injected via GG, those people think the
>>>>>> group is
>>>>>> dead and gone, hence the misleading title of this thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm curious as to which drug dealers are so dumb they think the
>>>>> demographic
>>>>> on usenet would be the slightest bit interested in their wares. They'd be
>>>>> far better off spamming snapchat or tiktok in some way.
>>>>
>>>> What's going on here is that the people purporting to sell the drugs
>>>> (let's assume for now they aren't actually trying to propagate
>>>> drive-by-malware) are sold a package of 'places/people we'll spam for
>>>> you' by a broker.
>>>>
>>>> It's the broker who adds Usenet to that portfolio, and frankly the
>>>> spammers don't have much of an incentive to try to reduce the price by
>>>> asking them to desist from spamming Usenet.
>>>
>>> Perhaps they have never heard of Usenet but target Google Groups, seeing
>>> Google as a young trendy company with products attractive to drug users.
>>> From their perspective, Google Groups used to run a forum called
>>> uk.railway which has now been banned by Google and no longer exists.
>>
>> Interestingly I’ve seen one Ketamine etc ad since the cut off, ostensibly
>> injected into Usenet from XSUsenet.com with no sign of Google in the Path:
>> header or elsewhere.
>>
>> I don’t know who XSUsenet are and I’m not sure I want to poke too hard.
>>
>> Sam
>>
> Much of the drug etc spam on Usenet seems to arrive via Google so it
> would be best if they drop all Usenet groups.
>
> Usenet was designed to use with clients and there are still plenty of
> free PC ones. I cannot understand why anyone in this thread is lamenting
> the loss of access from Google Groups except perhaps the dearth of free
> Usenet clients to use on a phone.
>
>

Google have what was the DejaNews archive, painstakingly created at the
time from several people's own private archives of early Usenet posts. It'd
be rather a shame to lose that.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Oct 2020 16:50:39 +0100
> Roland Perry > wrote:
>> In message >, at 15:36:04 on Mon, 12 Oct
>> 2020, MikeS > remarked:
>>
>>> I cannot understand why anyone in this thread is lamenting the loss of
>>> access from Google Groups except perhaps the dearth of free Usenet
>>> clients to use on a phone.
>>
>> It's the archive search which is most important.
>
> If it leads to the end of "But 5 years ago you wrote this...","Yes but 7 years
> ago you stated...." type threads that go on forever it can only be a good thing.
>
>

It rarely does; however it can be useful to find some obscure fact or quote
posted a decade ago.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

[Certes]

On 30/10/2020 03:03, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Google have what was the DejaNews archive, painstakingly created at the
> time from several people's own private archives of early Usenet posts. It'd
> be rather a shame to lose that.

I wonder if any of the web archive sites such as archive.org would be
interested in expanding their remit. A problem is that they might have
to become selective to avoid storing copyrighted or obscene content but
omitting binaries should solve most of that (and save much space).