"Martin Whelton" wrote in message
om...
Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next
year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and
Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham)

snip

It *isn't* being withdrawn between Stoke and Tottenham.
The current practice of operating garage journeys in service to and from
Tottenham is being retained.
The PVR decrease is solely down to the reduced frequency I'm afraid.

Rob

"Rob L." {rob}.latchford{@}ntlworld{.}[com] wrote in message
...
"Martin Whelton" wrote in message
om...
Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next
year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and
Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham)

snip

It *isn't* being withdrawn between Stoke and Tottenham.
The current practice of operating garage journeys in service to and from
Tottenham is being retained.
The PVR decrease is solely down to the reduced frequency I'm afraid.

Rob

According to TfL it is being withdrawn north of Stoke Newington. Also Arriva
haven't commented yet where the route will be run from, so may well not be
Tottenham.

Paul

"Paul Dredge" wrote in message
...

"Rob L." {rob}.latchford{@}ntlworld{.}[com] wrote in message
...
"Martin Whelton" wrote in message
om...
Tfl have announcend that the 73 is to be converted to Bendi Bus next
year. The route will be revised to run between Stoke Newington and
Victoria(withdrawn between Stoke Newington and Tottenham)

snip

It *isn't* being withdrawn between Stoke and Tottenham.
The current practice of operating garage journeys in service to and from
Tottenham is being retained.
The PVR decrease is solely down to the reduced frequency I'm afraid.

Rob

According to TfL it is being withdrawn north of Stoke Newington. Also
Arriva
haven't commented yet where the route will be run from, so may well not be
Tottenham.

Paul

Lets just say "wait and see"..... )

Rob

"Billy" wrote in message
...
I suspect Bluestars point is the omission from your list of (k).....
A somewhat unhealthy prediliction for the Articulated Bus products of
Mercedes Benz Gmbh coupled with,
(l) A suspicious reluctance to accept that the Marshall Refurbishment
programme resulted in a very cost-effective and efficiently engineered PCV
capable of meeting or exceeding present performance standards WITHOUT
recourse to additional and highly questionable supports (ie: Cashless
Boarding aka Revenue Free Transport).
Maybe others can fill in the remaining slots from (m) to (z)........ : )

I don't see how any sort of refurbishment will ever enable a Routemaster to
comply with disability legislation. Purely because of this they have to go.
No amount of nostalgia can compensate for barring members of society from
the means of getting around.

IMHO the Bendy Buses 'do the business', and if Mercedes are the only
manufacturer then sobeit. Standing at Holborn in the evening wanting to go
to Waterloo I will always make a beeline for the bendibus rather than
queueing for the Double Deckers precisely because they are so easy to board.

Colin

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 00:07:35 -0000, "Billy"
wrote:

[snip]
Rob Wooley`s previous post re planned increases in Rev Pro resources
confirms how wrong TfL have got this one.
Once the Revenue Collection system is compromised in the Travelling Public`s
eye it then becomes far more difficult to re-impose the required degree of
compliance.
At present many conductors don't bother to come upstairs.

Fare collection - what's that then?

On my two most recent visits to Londres I witnessed intending pax being
waved through on both an RV 1 and on a 527 because thay proffessed to having
some form of difficulty with the Off Bus ticketing machines.
On any new fare collection arrangement you have to 'nurse' it in.
Other posters here have commented that revenue blitzes on artics have
kicked in _after_ the route has gone live. When cashless operation
comes in, then nursing is the order of the day

Now it is not these individual pax concerned that TfL need be concerned
about but the many other pax already on the buses concerned who were a
receptive audience indeed to a short play about Free Travel......
[snip]
I am aware of some discussions in which many ambulatory but infirm folks
remain resolutely in favour of the Routemaster TPO especially in its
refurbished guise with DipTAC Stanchions and Brighter Interior lighting.....
Except mums with pushchairs. And people who can't climb the steps to
the lower saloon. Many of the complaints regarding double deck
low-floor buses related to the early vehicles which had little seating
in the low-floor area.

Not surprising as the first buses were DAF chassis which weren't
designed as low-floors but had been bodged to get a low-floor spec.


I am not an Anorak in this matter,as I am well aware of areas where the
Routemaster does fall short of modern practice BUT the Standard of service
capabable of being performed by the Refurbished vehicles remains on or above
par with even the most modern LFDD designs.
I remain unconvinced by attractive PR packaged "Spin" which attempts to sell
us bottles of coloured smoke and I feel that Routemaster operation utilising
the Latest Spec Refurbished vehicles is well within the capabilities of a
well managed and inventive Customer-Centred operation.....?????

They certainly are. However:

a) Continuing growth in passenger numbers means that RMs in many cases
aren't big enough. Hell, even an RML is too short to take a Cat D
driving test on.

b) Full DDA compliance is attractive - not just for moving wheelchair
users, but also for ambulant disabled people and those with
shopping/puschairs. Artics have full low-floors throughout.

c) What do you do with a conductor? With cash used by less than 20%
of passengers and falling they have little to do. They're not security
guards.

d) PR spin or not, passengers like artics. The quality of construction
of the Citaros is excellent. I just wish UK buses were as good - route
83 has received new LFDD - the buses have squeaky doors!


Rob.

--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:06:06 -0000, "Colin"
wrote:

IMHO the Bendy Buses 'do the business', and if Mercedes are the only
manufacturer then sobeit. snip

They aren't; Wright-bodied bendies are preferred by most of the
FirstGroup operations that use bendies (e.g. Manchester). The
Mercedes product, however, (as with their rigid single-decker
products) has an air of much higher quality, even with a
PurplePinkPuke(f) interior. I think it's this, rather than price,
that is influencing TfL in their choice.

I think that, were Mercedes in the business of mass-producing
double-deckers with their own body style, they would be very much in
evidence as well[1]. That said, the newer deckers with the rounded
upper and lower windscreens, large upper windows and generous seat
pitch that TfL use in most of their advertising (can't remember who
makes them) are a pretty high-quality product compared with most other
British deckers.

[1] Deckers are rare in Germany, probably Mercedes' largest target
markets for buses, mainly because road/rail bridges tend to be much
lower. The only place I've seen them in any quantity is Berlin -
where absolutely huge long-wheelbase double-doored deckers with two
staircases operate many routes.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null.
Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me.

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:07:51 +0000, Robert Woolley
wrote:

Except mums with pushchairs. And people who can't climb the steps to
the lower saloon. Many of the complaints regarding double deck
low-floor buses related to the early vehicles which had little seating
in the low-floor area.

And tall people like me, who can't stand other than on the platform,
which isn't that safe and generally isn't permitted, and also can't
sit anywhere except the very front seats and the side-facing ones by
the door without taking 2 seats or blocking the gangway.

And people who don't like shoving past huge standing crowds
(downstairs only, OK) to alight. Multiple doors are better - indeed,
on very busy routes, German single-deckers of a fairly normal length
often have 3 sets of doors!

Routemasters are interesting, granted, just like heritage rail stock
is. However, for an effective, comfortable passenger service, give me
a bendy or very recent dual-door decker any day.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
is a valid email address, but is sent to /dev/null.
Try my first name at the above domain instead if you want to e-mail me.

"Paul Dredge" wrote in message
...

According to TfL it is being withdrawn north of Stoke
Newington. Also Arriva haven't commented yet where
the route will be run from, so may well not be Tottenham.

I doubt if a bendibus could reach Tottenham garage... but then, I doubt if
it would get around the corner into Stoke Newington Church Street! Has the
infrastructure test taken place?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In article , Robert Woolley
writes
They certainly are. However:

a) Continuing growth in passenger numbers means that RMs in many cases
aren't big enough. Hell, even an RML is too short to take a Cat D
driving test on.

b) Full DDA compliance is attractive - not just for moving wheelchair
users, but also for ambulant disabled people and those with
shopping/puschairs.
I strongly disagree with this. Although making buses accessible to
those in wheelchairs in laudable (I recently took someone on a London
bendi in a wheelchair, his first bus ride in 32 years), low floor buses
make people like my arthritic mother *much* more unsteady, as the space
for wheelchairs (and buggies) is such that stanchions are too widely
spaced for them. And of course there are fewer seats.

A case of winning on the roundabouts and losing on the swings, I feel.

Artics have full low-floors throughout.

c) What do you do with a conductor? With cash used by less than 20%
of passengers and falling they have little to do. They're not security
guards.
But maybe they should be? Having a staff member in the saloon makes
bus travel feel safer for people and allows them to help with "tourist"
type enquiries which can and do cause long delays when such questions
are aimed at the driver.

d) PR spin or not, passengers like artics.
They do, yes. But they like double deckers, too! I've lost count of
the number of overseas clients I've had in London for whom as double
decker ride is a very "special" thing.

Apart from the "open top tour" type operations, I wonder what the vague
"heritage operations" will be where RMs will continue?

--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

AFAIK the bendibuses don't need much more space than a regular double
decker; the 10.5 metre DAFs seemed to be okay on Sundays.

--
Remove "0" from from daveb07890 to reply
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Paul Dredge" wrote in
message
...

According to TfL it is being withdrawn north of Stoke
Newington. Also Arriva haven't commented yet where
the route will be run from, so may well not be Tottenham.

I doubt if a bendibus could reach Tottenham garage... but then, I doubt if
it would get around the corner into Stoke Newington Church Street! Has the
infrastructure test taken place?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes