Someone's put in a Freedom of Information request to TfL for the
manual issued to bus drivers, the Big Red Book, which I suspect will
be of interest to some people here.

It can be found at http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...%20version.pdf
(or, http://tinyurl.com/24l4hr5 if the link's broken)

Does seem to be a bit out of date. Single fare still showing at 90p

trainmanUK wrote on 15 May 2010 10:07:45 ...
Does seem to be a bit out of date. Single fare still showing at 90p

It's dated October 2008.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

In message
,
martin writes

Someone's put in a Freedom of Information request to TfL for the
manual issued to bus drivers, the Big Red Book, which I suspect will
be of interest to some people here.

Interesting to see the advice about stopping: "It doesn't matter what
kind of stop, or if the passengers put their hands out, if there's
someone waiting to board ... stop".

But it doesn't say how, at a stop served by multiple routes, the driver
can know if there's someone waiting to board the particular bus he or
she is driving!
--
Paul Terry

On 15 May, 11:51, Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
martin writes

Someone's put in a Freedom of Information request to TfL for the
manual issued to bus drivers, the Big Red Book, which I suspect will
be of interest to some people here.

Interesting to see the advice about stopping: "It doesn't matter what
kind of stop, or if the passengers put their hands out, if there's
someone waiting to board ... stop".

But it doesn't say how, at a stop served by multiple routes, the driver
can know if there's someone waiting to board the particular bus he or
she is driving!


Wasn't that the proposal a while back, which at first glance appeared
to be a recognition of the reality of the lack of distinction between
request and compulsory stops these days (ie drivers don't stop at any
of them unless you throw yourself in front of them), but equalised
them in the way suggested above, which didn't reflect reality after
all, and required drivers to stop at stops they didn't used to.

So is this book a kind of snapshot of a proposal that was never
implemented, or was it after all?

In any case, given the reality of timekeeping, we know that the need
to get the empty bus to its next checkpoint will override the need to
let anyone on the bus.

On May 15, 1:01*pm, MIG wrote:

On 15 May, 11:51, Paul Terry wrote:

martin wrote:

Someone's put in a Freedom of Information request to TfL for the
manual issued to bus drivers, the Big Red Book, which I suspect will
be of interest to some people here.

Interesting to see the advice about stopping: "It doesn't matter what
kind of stop, or if the passengers put their hands out, if there's
someone waiting to board ... stop".

But it doesn't say how, at a stop served by multiple routes, the driver
can know if there's someone waiting to board the particular bus he or
she is driving!

Wasn't that the proposal a while back, which at first glance appeared
to be a recognition of the reality of the lack of distinction between
request and compulsory stops these days (ie drivers don't stop at any
of them unless you throw yourself in front of them), but equalised
them in the way suggested above, which didn't reflect reality after
all, and required drivers to stop at stops they didn't used to.

So is this book a kind of snapshot of a proposal that was never
implemented, or was it after all?

There doesn't seem to have been any definitive conclusion to all that.


In any case, given the reality of timekeeping, we know that the need
to get the empty bus to its next checkpoint will override the need to
let anyone on the bus.

Do we? Interesting...

In message
s.com of Sat, 15 May 2010 06:12:10 in uk.transport.london, Mizter T
writes

On May 15, 1:01*pm, MIG wrote:

On 15 May, 11:51, Paul Terry wrote:

martin wrote:

I am grateful to martin (sic) for starting this thread.


Someone's put in a Freedom of Information request to TfL for the
manual issued to bus drivers, the Big Red Book, which I suspect will
be of interest to some people here.

Interesting to see the advice about stopping: "It doesn't matter what
kind of stop, or if the passengers put their hands out, if there's
someone waiting to board ... stop".

But it doesn't say how, at a stop served by multiple routes, the driver
can know if there's someone waiting to board the particular bus he or
she is driving!

Wasn't that the proposal a while back, which at first glance appeared
to be a recognition of the reality of the lack of distinction between
request and compulsory stops these days (ie drivers don't stop at any
of them unless you throw yourself in front of them), but equalised
them in the way suggested above, which didn't reflect reality after
all, and required drivers to stop at stops they didn't used to.

So is this book a kind of snapshot of a proposal that was never
implemented, or was it after all?

There doesn't seem to have been any definitive conclusion to all that.


In any case, given the reality of timekeeping, we know that the need
to get the empty bus to its next checkpoint will override the need to
let anyone on the bus.

Do we? Interesting...

sent a response on 31 March 2009 to
me saying "It is true that there used to be separate designations for
'compulsory' and 'request' stops. This is no longer the case. Following
a review of the matter last year, drivers have been advised to treat all
designated bus stops in the same manner. If there are customers waiting
at the stop they must stop, and if a passenger presses the stop request
button on board the bus they must stop at the next bus stop. There is no
documentation of this change."

That is the theory. If readers find otherwise, an email to that address
reporting the issue would be useful.
Alternatively, Surface Travel Customer Services at 0845 300 7000 is open
Monday to Friday between 0800 and 2000.

The following would help TfL handle the report:
Your details: name, snail mail address, and phone number(s).
Date and time;
Driver description;
Bus details: service number and destination, license plate number,
running number - sometimes in the cab and sometimes on the side of the
bus, and bus company vehicle number - usually on the back of the bus.
Stop details: name and number - usually on the stop flag bottom face;
Description of the incident.

With luck, somebody will be along with URLs showing pictures. Obviously,
it would take forever to get all this information. Some redundancy is
useful to counter a "Not me, guv!" response from the driver.

I think London bus drivers are 95%+ good. It is up to Londoners to help
raise that percentage. Drivers' skill in piloting big vehicles in small
lanes staggers me. Pedestrians and cyclists seemingly determined on
suicide make the job more difficult.

I often get more service than I am entitled to. At Moorgate, going to
Bank, I miss a bus, which then stops at a red light. An Oyster tapped on
the door gets me on the bus.
According to http://www.londonbusroutes.net/routes.htm, I can expect
an average headway of 75 seconds at 0730 on a weekday; Journey Planner
shows 6 minutes. I would have guessed 2 minutes. I don't know where to
find official timetables.
--
Walter Briscoe

On 15 May, 15:49, Walter Briscoe wrote:
In message
s.com of Sat, 15 May 2010 06:12:10 in uk.transport.london, Mizter T
writes



On May 15, 1:01*pm, MIG wrote:

On 15 May, 11:51, Paul Terry wrote:

martin wrote:

I am grateful to martin (sic) for starting this thread.







Someone's put in a Freedom of Information request to TfL for the
manual issued to bus drivers, the Big Red Book, which I suspect will
be of interest to some people here.

Interesting to see the advice about stopping: "It doesn't matter what
kind of stop, or if the passengers put their hands out, if there's
someone waiting to board ... stop".

But it doesn't say how, at a stop served by multiple routes, the driver
can know if there's someone waiting to board the particular bus he or
she is driving!

Wasn't that the proposal a while back, which at first glance appeared
to be a recognition of the reality of the lack of distinction between
request and compulsory stops these days (ie drivers don't stop at any
of them unless you throw yourself in front of them), but equalised
them in the way suggested above, which didn't reflect reality after
all, and required drivers to stop at stops they didn't used to.

So is this book a kind of snapshot of a proposal that was never
implemented, or was it after all?

There doesn't seem to have been any definitive conclusion to all that.

In any case, given the reality of timekeeping, we know that the need
to get the empty bus to its next checkpoint will override the need to
let anyone on the bus.

Do we? Interesting...

sent a response on 31 March 2009 to
me saying "It is true that there used to be separate designations for
'compulsory' and 'request' stops. This is no longer the case. Following
a review of the matter last year, drivers have been advised to treat all
designated bus stops in the same manner. If there are customers waiting
at the stop they must stop, and if a passenger presses the stop request
button on board the bus they must stop at the next bus stop. There is no
documentation of this change."

That is the theory. If readers find otherwise, an email to that address
reporting the issue would be useful.
Alternatively, Surface Travel Customer Services at 0845 300 7000 is open
Monday to Friday between 0800 and 2000.

The following would help TfL handle the report:
Your details: name, snail mail address, and phone number(s).
Date and time;
Driver description;
Bus details: service number and destination, license plate number,
running number - sometimes in the cab and sometimes on the side of the
bus, and bus company vehicle number - usually on the back of the bus.
Stop details: name and number - usually on the stop flag bottom face;
Description of the incident.

With luck, somebody will be along with URLs showing pictures. Obviously,
it would take forever to get all this information. Some redundancy is
useful to counter a "Not me, guv!" response from the driver.

I think London bus drivers are 95%+ good. It is up to Londoners to help
raise that percentage. Drivers' skill in piloting big vehicles in small
lanes staggers me. Pedestrians and cyclists seemingly determined on
suicide make the job more difficult.

I often get more service than I am entitled to. At Moorgate, going to
Bank, I miss a bus, which then stops at a red light. An Oyster tapped on
the door gets me on the bus.
According to http://www.londonbusroutes.net/routes.htm, I can expect
an average headway of 75 seconds at 0730 on a weekday; Journey Planner
shows 6 minutes. I would have guessed 2 minutes. I don't know where to
find official timetables.
--
Walter Briscoe

It is useful as a warning to know that the distinction is officially
gone, but not particularly helpful compared with knowing that a bus
would stop at a compulsory stop.

At about 0320 last Saturday, there were two of us at what would
previously have been a compulsory bus stop, bleedin obviously waiting
for a bus and no one else around. but we turned our backs to look at a
particular side of the timetable and a N136 sailed past.

As we were just reading while not looking the right way, it was on
time. Nice to know the bus got where it was going on time. Shame we
didn't get there, not being given a chance to get on the bus.

On 15/05/2010 16:34, MIG wrote:

At about 0320 last Saturday, there were two of us at what would
previously have been a compulsory bus stop, bleedin obviously waiting
for a bus and no one else around. but we turned our backs to look at a
particular side of the timetable and a N136 sailed past.

As we were just reading while not looking the right way, it was on
time. Nice to know the bus got where it was going on time. Shame we
didn't get there, not being given a chance to get on the bus.

All bus stops are compulsory for night buses, unless they've changed that.

On 15/05/2010 16:38, Basil Jet wrote:
On 15/05/2010 16:34, MIG wrote:

At about 0320 last Saturday, there were two of us at what would
previously have been a compulsory bus stop, bleedin obviously waiting
for a bus and no one else around. but we turned our backs to look at a
particular side of the timetable and a N136 sailed past.

As we were just reading while not looking the right way, it was on
time. Nice to know the bus got where it was going on time. Shame we
didn't get there, not being given a chance to get on the bus.

All bus stops are compulsory for night buses, unless they've changed that.

Yeah, like I was just saying, all stops were request for night buses.
But since there are now 24-hour buses with no N prefix, the rules must
have been changed since then.