Long piece he

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/buildings/...y-extension/50
00779.article

Author reckons the jewel in the crown is the maintenance shed, which we
can't see...


E.

"eastender" wrote in message
...
Long piece he

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/buildings/...y-extension/50
00779.article

Author reckons the jewel in the crown is the maintenance shed, which we
can't see...

??? Isn't it visible from northbound trains over the new flyover?

I see like many journalists though he believes that the extended ELL is part
of the tube system.

Another oddity is that he complains that the trains still run at the same
speed as the suburban trains they replaced. I suppose he'd prefer it if they
kept running into the back of SN's services...

Paul S

In article ,
"Paul Scott" wrote:

Author reckons the jewel in the crown is the maintenance shed, which we
can't see...

??? Isn't it visible from northbound trains over the new flyover?

He's talking about the inside.

E.

In article ,
Paul Corfield wrote:


Err having read the article I wonder what on earth was expected of the
ELLX. I'm left thinking that the author of the article would have
preferred a stonking architectural wonder rather than a railway service.
The problem being that TfL were tasked with providing a railway rather
than tickling the tummy of architects.

I agree - all in all the northern section is pretty much an eclectic
experience in keeping with the surroundings.

Dalston Junction is a bit utilitarian but at
least it is spacious and easy to get through - it's light years ahead of
Dalston Kingsland which is unbelievably cramped for the numbers using
it.

My wife says that even Haggerston, where I picked her up yesterday with
some heavy shopping, is spacious.

I doubt the DfT
are saying "oh look luvvies let's keep all the architectural fripperies
but to pay for them we must axe Bond Street and Whitechapel stations"
when doing a VFM review of Crossrail!

Whitechapel could do with a revamp...

E.

"eastender" wrote in message
...

Whitechapel could do with a revamp...

Is it not the case that all the Whitechapel circulation areas will be
completely rebuilt as part of the Crossrail main works. Seems likely that
the ELL project work package there (the emergency stairs basically) was on a
'do the minimum' basis.

Paul S

On 12/06/2010 12:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:54:59 +0100, wrote:

Long piece he

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/buildings/...y-extension/50
00779.article

Author reckons the jewel in the crown is the maintenance shed, which we
can't see...

Err having read the article I wonder what on earth was expected of the
ELLX.

A surprising number of people in Croydon seemed to think they were
getting a brand new JLE-style fully underground line, not different
trains running on existing tracks (I'm not sure the reinstated tracks at
the north end are of much interest down here, or are even intended to be
of interest).

I'm left thinking that the author of the article would have
preferred a stonking architectural wonder rather than a railway service.

I'm not sure it is entirely fair to complain that "Architecture news
from the architects' favourite weekly newspaper" focuses on, erm,
architecture...


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 13 June, 12:33, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:41:19 +0100, Arthur Figgis





wrote:
On 12/06/2010 12:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:54:59 +0100, *wrote:

Long piece he

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/buildings/...ilway-extensio....
00779.article

Author reckons the jewel in the crown is the maintenance shed, which we
can't see...

Err having read the article I wonder what on earth was expected of the
ELLX.

A surprising number of people in Croydon seemed to think they were
getting a brand new JLE-style fully underground line,

They did? * I bet they were mightily disappointed then.

not different
trains running on existing tracks (I'm not sure the reinstated tracks at
the north end are of much interest down here, or are even intended to be
of interest).

Well given not a lot of work has happened or was ever planned to happen
at the southern end did they imagine someone was about to wave a wand
one night last month and it was all going to appear as if by magic? *

Given that there have been "campaigns" whingeing about the loss of
trains into London Bridge didn't they appreciate what they were getting
in terms of the ELL in order to be able to have their whinge in the
first place?


People seem well able to appreciate a change to or loss of the
particular train that they commute on (because there are timetables
down here, rather than a stream of trains every few minutes, and
people tend to get the same train every day).

Beyond that though, I've never met a normal who can distinguish
between DLR, JLE, ELLX Crossrail and Thameslink.

They are all just things with future promise of new routes that are
excuses for current disruption, as far as most people are concerned,
and people throw the terms interchangeably into conversation.

I don't foresee a time when I won't still have to explain that the DLR
doesn't go to the dome.

On 13/06/2010 13:24, MIG wrote:
On 13 June, 12:33, Paul wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:41:19 +0100, Arthur Figgis





wrote:
On 12/06/2010 12:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:54:59 +0100, wrote:

Long piece he

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/buildings/...ilway-extensio...
00779.article

Author reckons the jewel in the crown is the maintenance shed, which we
can't see...

Err having read the article I wonder what on earth was expected of the
ELLX.

A surprising number of people in Croydon seemed to think they were
getting a brand new JLE-style fully underground line,

They did? I bet they were mightily disappointed then.

not different
trains running on existing tracks (I'm not sure the reinstated tracks at
the north end are of much interest down here, or are even intended to be
of interest).

Well given not a lot of work has happened or was ever planned to happen
at the southern end did they imagine someone was about to wave a wand
one night last month and it was all going to appear as if by magic?

Given that there have been "campaigns" whingeing about the loss of
trains into London Bridge didn't they appreciate what they were getting
in terms of the ELL in order to be able to have their whinge in the
first place?


People seem well able to appreciate a change to or loss of the
particular train that they commute on (because there are timetables
down here, rather than a stream of trains every few minutes, and
people tend to get the same train every day).

Beyond that though, I've never met a normal who can distinguish
between DLR, JLE, ELLX Crossrail and Thameslink.

http://www.thisiscroydontoday.co.uk/...l/article.html

Amidst the [blatant plug/interesting local comment] from an estate agent:

===
Miss Ogden believes property prices could rise still further as word of
the extension's opening spreads.

She said: "I don't think there's been enough publicity from TfL
(Transport for London). We feel it's a huge plus for the area."

But Elliott Valentine, a mortgage broker at estate agents Townends in
South Norwood High Street, believes the East London line has had little
impact on South Norwood – because of a lack of publicity.

He said: "It has been a bit of an anti-climax and hasn't had a major
effect here.

"It would definitely have an impact if it was on the news that it was
coming through Norwood Junction.
===
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 13/06/2010 12:33, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:41:19 +0100, Arthur Figgis
wrote:

On 12/06/2010 12:06, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:54:59 +0100, wrote:

Long piece he

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/buildings/...y-extension/50
00779.article

Author reckons the jewel in the crown is the maintenance shed, which we
can't see...

Err having read the article I wonder what on earth was expected of the
ELLX.

A surprising number of people in Croydon seemed to think they were
getting a brand new JLE-style fully underground line,

They did? I bet they were mightily disappointed then.

Yup.

Even some of the people at my model club refused to believe me when I
tried explaining it was going to use the existing railway - and while
some of the old codgers are not quite up to speed on all aspects of
modern life (the good news from Mafeking might not have reached some of
them), they do know a bit about trains.

not different
trains running on existing tracks (I'm not sure the reinstated tracks at
the north end are of much interest down here, or are even intended to be
of interest).

Well given not a lot of work has happened or was ever planned to happen
at the southern end did they imagine someone was about to wave a wand
one night last month and it was all going to appear as if by magic?

Tunnelling would happen out of site, and there are plenty of random
construction sites scattered around. I saw comments on the local press
websites from people who thought construction sites for a new high
voltage cable tunnel were for "the new tube line".

There have also been estate agents advertising with pictures of
deep-level tube trains (not that anyone would necessarily believe an
estate agent!).

And it's not as if there hasn't been disruption to train services in
recent years (or today).

Given that there have been "campaigns" whingeing about the loss of
trains into London Bridge didn't they appreciate what they were getting
in terms of the ELL in order to be able to have their whinge in the
first place?

No. I'm not sure it was even that well publicised in advance - look at
all the discussions there were on newsgroups, and that is pretty
hardcore geeks and anoraks struggling to figure it out.

Even last week there were people at my local station accosting the
platform staff to ask where their London Bridge train was hiding.

"First we came for your night buses, then we came for your London Bridge
trains...." :-/

I'm left thinking that the author of the article would have
preferred a stonking architectural wonder rather than a railway service.

I'm not sure it is entirely fair to complain that "Architecture news
from the architects' favourite weekly newspaper" focuses on, erm,
architecture...

Well so what. They must have known for years and years what was
designed, submitted for planning approval and what it would end up
looking like.

I'm sure people who read specialist railway mags knew what a 378 looks
like, but the opening still made it to the front pages. People even
discuss it on Usenet....

It's simply having a cheap shot rather than appreciating
that we have got a new railway service in

Services are not really the architect's concern. It is not as if
architects only design stations for lines they will travel on. I suspect
"EMU Designers Weekly" and "Orange Sticky Labels Monthly" will all have
their own narrow take on the ELL.

One of the railway mags once had an article which looked at CTRL purely
from the perspective of ventilation fans, in which someone from Acme
Fans Ltd didn't once consider (say) the impact of Eurostar on Belgian
travel patterns...

a bit of London that has not had decent rail links for a long time.

That sounds like a bit of a "north of the river" viewpoint!

If the original plan had been to construct an architectural wonder and
then it had been cut back to a very basic scheme then they'd be entitled
to moan. As that was not the case then they aren't. As I mentioned
earlier they fail to comprehend how the railway was financed and
constructed. They are trying to blame a procurement mechanism that was
not used for the perceived architectural ills of this scheme and then
suggesting Crossrail will go the same way even though that is *not*
being built via a PPP or PFI procurement mechanism.

I can't get back to the article without registering but I think they
were also moaning about a lack of architectural consistency on the DLR.
Given it is has been in a state of constant expansion for nearly 20
years do they expect all the stations to look like they original were -
minimalist bus shelters painted blue?

TfL seem to put a lot of effort into consistent branding and design, to
the extent that some people get quite excited when the spot the wrong
font or signs in the "wrong" order.

As I have said before I am very
happy to have excellent urban design and architecture and for it to be
incorporated where it can be sensibly afforded. However it cannot be the
primary element of a transport scheme whose purpose is to transport
people rather than allow them to wait inside a building! Moaning
articles like this do not further the cause of transport or of
architecture in my view.

That argument was lost with a combination of New Street and St Pancras.

TBH, I doubt they care what we think. Neither of use are the target
audience.


--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message
o.uk...

big snippity

"First we came for your night buses, then we came for your London Bridge
trains...." :-/

another big snippity

What is it about the Croydon/Sutton/Carshalton triangle that sucks the life
out of late night public transport? First we had the N213 was it?
cancellation debacle and now the ELL. I go to quite a lot of gigs over in
that bit of London (some mates have got a band that play that side of town a
lot) and was looking to the ELL to make the journey back to the sensible
side of town that much easier. A tube STYLE service and tube STYLE
timetable, Yippee! Then I saw the last train from West Croydon time; 23:22,
hang on, I didn't phrase that correctly, TWENTY THREE - FU*KING - TWENTY
TWO! Would it have been that hard to stick on a midnight flyer? So anyone
using LO for a night out in the fleshpots of Croydon or more sensibly
perhaps going to a event at the Fairfield Halls is stuffed for getting home,
oh well, back to the night bus (provided it's not been cancelled).
--
Cheers, Steve.
Change jealous to sad to reply.