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Old December 3rd 03, 06:46 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Camden Town and Hammersmith derailments - reports available

The interim report into the Camden Town derailment is available from the
link below (48 pages):

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...n-derailment-I
nterim-Report.pdf

with a brief summary at:

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...es/0311/28.asp

The link for the final Hammersmith derailment report is he

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...ersmith-Invest
igation-report.pdf

although it doesn't wan to appear for some reason.
The Hammersmith report is 43 pages long.

Links to both reports are via the press release page below:

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...p?#hammersmith



Roger

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Old December 3rd 03, 08:08 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Camden Town and Hammersmith derailments - reports available

wrote in message
...
The interim report into the Camden Town derailment is available from the
link below (48 pages):

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...n-derailment-I
nterim-Report.pdf

with a brief summary at:

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...es/0311/28.asp

The link for the final Hammersmith derailment report is he

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...ersmith-Invest
igation-report.pdf

although it doesn't wan to appear for some reason.
The Hammersmith report is 43 pages long.

Links to both reports are via the press release page below:

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...p?#hammersmith




The Camden Town report makes for an interesting read, but doesn't seem to
state how permanent the current service patterns are. Do they plan to
permanently sever the Northern line into two separate lines? If so, they'll
need to seriously redesign Camden Town as at the moment it doesn't seem to
cope too well with the large number of passengers changing there.


Daniel.


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Old December 4th 03, 08:51 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Camden Town and Hammersmith derailments - reports available

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:08 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
Didn't you read the press release? It makes clear the intention to restore
the Northern Line service:

"The current Northern line service sees trains running Edgware to Morden
via Bank only and High Barnet to Morden via Charing Cross only. London
Underground and Tube Lines are working to reintroduce a full service on
the line as soon as possible and hope to be able to do this early in the
New Year."


The press release seems to disagree with the Interim Report which says:

This service pattern is being delivered by the current team
of Train operators whose duties are designed around the
integrated service pattern operated before the derailment.
Thus the train service is currently being delivered in an
inefficient manner.

A new timetable designed around the dedicated branch service
pattern is in production, aimed at being available in January
2004.

I think we are going to have the split service for many months to come.

David
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Old December 4th 03, 02:26 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Camden Town and Hammersmith derailments - reports available

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(David Walters) wrote:

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:08 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), Colin Rosenstiel
wrote:
Didn't you read the press release? It makes clear the intention to
restore the Northern Line service:

"The current Northern line service sees trains running Edgware to
Morden via Bank only and High Barnet to Morden via Charing Cross
only. London Underground and Tube Lines are working to reintroduce a
full service on the line as soon as possible and hope to be able to
do this early in the New Year."


The press release seems to disagree with the Interim Report which says:

This service pattern is being delivered by the current team
of Train operators whose duties are designed around the
integrated service pattern operated before the derailment.
Thus the train service is currently being delivered in an
inefficient manner.

A new timetable designed around the dedicated branch service
pattern is in production, aimed at being available in January
2004.

I think we are going to have the split service for many months to come.


Ouch! Missed that.


Ah, that explains it! I only read the full release and skipped the short
summary (oops!). Strange that the two disagree? Anyway, LU seem to not have
put up any adverts at their stations about a full service being resumed, so
I can only assume that their hoping people will forget about it until LU
decide to restore services.

Daniel.


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Old December 4th 03, 07:08 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Camden Town and Hammersmith derailments - reports available

On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:26:11 -0000, "Heliomass"
wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(David Walters) wrote:

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:08 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), Colin Rosenstiel
wrote:
Didn't you read the press release? It makes clear the intention to
restore the Northern Line service:

"The current Northern line service sees trains running Edgware to
Morden via Bank only and High Barnet to Morden via Charing Cross
only. London Underground and Tube Lines are working to reintroduce a
full service on the line as soon as possible and hope to be able to
do this early in the New Year."

The press release seems to disagree with the Interim Report which says:

This service pattern is being delivered by the current team
of Train operators whose duties are designed around the
integrated service pattern operated before the derailment.
Thus the train service is currently being delivered in an
inefficient manner.

A new timetable designed around the dedicated branch service
pattern is in production, aimed at being available in January
2004.

I think we are going to have the split service for many months to come.


Ouch! Missed that.


Ah, that explains it! I only read the full release and skipped the short
summary (oops!). Strange that the two disagree? Anyway, LU seem to not have
put up any adverts at their stations about a full service being resumed, so
I can only assume that their hoping people will forget about it until LU
decide to restore services.


No that is absolutely not the reason. The Camden report is an interim
report. The conclusion about the root cause is not 100% yet as more
testing is needed to check that a problem with the train bogie was not
the cause. When people definitely know what went wrong then the correct
fix can be applied, commissioned and approved by the safety authorities.

Work is proceeding on designing a revised set of points so that a
replacement can be manufactured and installed as soon as practicable
once the root cause is confirmed. I do not know what is planned if some
other root cause is determined.

The timetable issue is based around the current operation being an
adaptation of the old one with a number of trains cancelled. This is
causing problems with irregular headways and capacity issues south of
Kennington. The timetable is being rewritten to provide a much better
organised and regular timetable while the fixed routes are in place.
Once the work is done to restore the old routes at Camden then the
timetable in place before the incident can be reintroduced.

--
Paul C
Admits to Working for London Underground!



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Old December 5th 03, 12:55 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Camden Town and Hammersmith derailments - reports available

wrote in message ...
The interim report into the Camden Town derailment is available from the
link below (48 pages):

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...n-derailment-I
nterim-Report.pdf


What worries me with the Camden Town accident other than the major part of
the accident was that one of the doors was pulled off the 5th carriage and
the corner ripped away. The doors were ripped off in the central line
accident too. IMO its just sheer good luck that no one was standing near or
leaning on these doors because if they had they'd probably be dead. I genuinely
think that perhaps LUL or their contractors re-evaluate having outside mounted
doors on future trains. Ok maybe they make maintenance a bit easier but is
that worth the risk to passengers if they're ripped off? I don't think so.

B2003
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Old December 5th 03, 05:22 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Camden Town and Hammersmith derailments - reports available

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 18:46:52 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

The interim report into the Camden Town derailment is available from the
link below (48 pages):

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...n-derailment-I
nterim-Report.pdf

with a brief summary at:

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...es/0311/28.asp

The link for the final Hammersmith derailment report is he

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...ersmith-Invest
igation-report.pdf

although it doesn't wan to appear for some reason.
The Hammersmith report is 43 pages long.

Links to both reports are via the press release page below:

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/press...p?#hammersmith



Roger

Interesting reads. Seems like the Ulta-sonic testing system only uses
90deg probes as a crack like that at Hammersmith would have been
readily identifiable once in the web using a 60 or 30. The pictures
are quite classic for slow stress corrosion cracking.

Seems like Hammersmith is showing a massive problem in Maintainance
management and communication.

The Camden one seems to me to be a bit wooly. It keeps coming back to
track lubrication with indications that may have prevented the
incident whilst keeping on noting that lubrication is only
incorporated in standards for track and wheel wear considerations.
Then states good practice wold have resulted in the blade being
lubricated. You can't have it two ways.

In my own field there are good practice things which can be hinted at
during works but have to be accepted that are not part of any
standard.

Either there should have been a recomendation there for lubrication to
be incorporated in the standards for safety, especially where wheel
lifting is a possiblity, or the point dropped out of the report. As it
is it is left hanging, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

You don't have to do it, but if you don't and things go pear shaped
then this report can be held against you sort of thing.

I was surprised at the involvement of the heroic part played by (by
all mentions in the report) the Rev. inspector. Seems that person was
a real hero of the hour. However, are they trained for trackside and
tunnel access? Surprised me if so and if not then definitley taking
the risk of becoming another accident statistic. Bit of a management
conundrum. Reward, ignore or retrain?

Seems from both of them that there is a problem with site management
at the scene. The management plan sems to OK(ish) when the Gold
controller is installed but quite open before. The impression I got
from the report was that the scenes became a bit of a three ring
circus for senior management to go and make like tourists before and
wander all over the forensic at will.

I would have expected that the senior operations person there, t/op,
Stn manager/whatever, should be given an automatic overall management
of the scene set in stone to regulate access/egress until the E.M.U
get there, when the EMU shift leader takes the role. They to have the
power to tell directors and the like to leave the scene. This then to
be passed to the Gold/Silver/Broze controller on arrival. Even then
the reports seem to indicate that there is a lack of enpowerment to
contol access and to the site.

Keith J Chesworth
www.unseenlondon.co.uk
www.blackpooltram.co.uk
www.happysnapper.com
www.boilerbill.com - main site
www.amerseyferry.co.uk
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Old December 5th 03, 05:28 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Camden Town and Hammersmith derailments - reports available

In article ,
(David Walters) wrote:

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:08 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), Colin Rosenstiel
wrote:
Didn't you read the press release? It makes clear the intention to
restore the Northern Line service:

"The current Northern line service sees trains running Edgware to
Morden via Bank only and High Barnet to Morden via Charing Cross
only. London Underground and Tube Lines are working to reintroduce a
full service on the line as soon as possible and hope to be able to
do this early in the New Year."


The press release seems to disagree with the Interim Report which says:

This service pattern is being delivered by the current team
of Train operators whose duties are designed around the
integrated service pattern operated before the derailment.
Thus the train service is currently being delivered in an
inefficient manner.

A new timetable designed around the dedicated branch service
pattern is in production, aimed at being available in January
2004.

I think we are going to have the split service for many months to come.

David


The Northern Line should hopefully be back to a 91 train timetable
starting 4 January - we should get the new duties and analysis sheets at
the beginning of next week. There will be stepping back at Morden as per
TT48, however there will still be no through City trains to the Barnet
branch and, I assume no Barnet branch trains through the City because as
far as I'm aware, the SB route is still secured for the CX side.

There are rumours (and have been for some time) that the line will revert
to the original timetable in March. However this is reliant on the Camden
Town issues being sorted out by then and may well be later than March.

Roger


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