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Old September 9th 10, 09:34 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default "Jet and Turkish Airlines 777 in 'near-miss' over London"

---quote---
A business jet came close to a mid-air collision with a Turkish
Airlines passenger plane after taking off from London City Airport, a
report has said.

The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) study described the near-
miss over London as a "serious incident".
---/quote---

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11237496

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Old September 9th 10, 09:53 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default "Jet and Turkish Airlines 777 in 'near-miss' over London"

On Sep 9, 10:34*am, Mizter T wrote:
---quote---
A business jet came close to a mid-air collision with a Turkish
Airlines passenger plane after taking off from London City Airport, a
report has said.

The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) study described the near-
miss over London as a "serious incident".
---/quote---

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11237496


The AAIB report can be seen at
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/...__tc_jja. cfm
(http://tinyurl.com/3ag5bv2)
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Old September 9th 10, 01:57 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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On Sep 9, 10:53*am, martin wrote:

On Sep 9, 10:34*am, Mizter T wrote:

---quote---
A business jet came close to a mid-air collision with a Turkish
Airlines passenger plane after taking off from London City Airport, a
report has said.


The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) study described the near-
miss over London as a "serious incident".
---/quote---


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11237496


The AAIB report can be seen at
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/...__tc_jja. cfm
(http://tinyurl.com/3ag5bv2)


The Beeb story's description of the AAIB report as a "study" is odd!
(Incidentally, the story has been updated since it first went live,
with some analysis and an illustrative map.)

I took a quick look at the PPRUNE thread on this (11 posts at
present), which has a few interesting comments:
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/4...er-london.html

I do like the link to George Carlin's thoughts on the matter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuCN6CD8j_s

Indeed!
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Old September 9th 10, 07:33 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 02:34:00 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

---quote---
A business jet came close to a mid-air collision with a Turkish
Airlines passenger plane after taking off from London City Airport, a
report has said.

The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) study described the near-
miss over London as a "serious incident".
---/quote---

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11237496


Serious indeed, but "100ft to 200ft below and half-a-mile away" is not
"feet away" like the crappy reporting in the Standard (yes, again)
would suggest.

They did post an apology for the misleading story about the Javelin
trains, but it was small and out of the way.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.
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Old September 10th 10, 08:29 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default "Jet and Turkish Airlines 777 in 'near-miss' over London"

On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:33:29 +0100
Neil Williams wrote:
On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 02:34:00 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

---quote---
A business jet came close to a mid-air collision with a Turkish
Airlines passenger plane after taking off from London City Airport, a
report has said.

The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) study described the near-
miss over London as a "serious incident".
---/quote---

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11237496


Serious indeed, but "100ft to 200ft below and half-a-mile away" is not
"feet away" like the crappy reporting in the Standard (yes, again)
would suggest.


Is it even serious? Were the planes on a direct collision course or would
they have passed each other anyway if no one had noticed?

B2003




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Old September 10th 10, 09:45 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default "Jet and Turkish Airlines 777 in 'near-miss' over London"

d wrote on 10 September 2010 09:29:29 ...
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:33:29 +0100
Neil wrote:
On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 02:34:00 -0700 (PDT), Mizter
wrote:

---quote---
A business jet came close to a mid-air collision with a Turkish
Airlines passenger plane after taking off from London City Airport, a
report has said.

The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) study described the near-
miss over London as a "serious incident".
---/quote---

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11237496


Serious indeed, but "100ft to 200ft below and half-a-mile away" is not
"feet away" like the crappy reporting in the Standard (yes, again)
would suggest.


Is it even serious? Were the planes on a direct collision course or would
they have passed each other anyway if no one had noticed?


Yes, it *is* serious. The pilot of the business jet says he changed his
aircraft's heading to avoid the 777. The planes were heading towards
each other at a closing speed of at least 350 mph. That suggests to me
that without avoidance action, the planes would have been between 0 and
4 seconds from a collision.

And this was not an isolated incident. The AAIB bulletin says that
"departures from London City Airport require crews to make full power
takeoffs before levelling off [at 3000 ft] less than one minute after
leaving the ground, which is unusual. It is critical that aircraft
comply with the level-off because there is a high probability that the
departing traffic will cross the track of an aircraft inbound to
Heathrow Airport, which might be only 1,000 ft above." But since 2004
there have been 21 instances where planes have climbed above the 3000 ft
"step".
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)
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Old September 10th 10, 10:40 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default "Jet and Turkish Airlines 777 in 'near-miss' over London"

"Richard J." wrote in message

d wrote on 10 September 2010 09:29:29 ...
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:33:29 +0100
Neil wrote:
On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 02:34:00 -0700 (PDT), Mizter
wrote:

---quote---
A business jet came close to a mid-air collision with a Turkish
Airlines passenger plane after taking off from London City
Airport, a report has said.

The Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) study described the
near- miss over London as a "serious incident".
---/quote---

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11237496

Serious indeed, but "100ft to 200ft below and half-a-mile away" is
not "feet away" like the crappy reporting in the Standard (yes,
again) would suggest.


Is it even serious? Were the planes on a direct collision course or
would they have passed each other anyway if no one had noticed?


Yes, it *is* serious. The pilot of the business jet says he changed
his aircraft's heading to avoid the 777. The planes were heading
towards each other at a closing speed of at least 350 mph. That
suggests to me that without avoidance action, the planes would have
been between 0 and 4 seconds from a collision.

And this was not an isolated incident. The AAIB bulletin says that
"departures from London City Airport require crews to make full power
takeoffs before levelling off [at 3000 ft] less than one minute after
leaving the ground, which is unusual. It is critical that aircraft
comply with the level-off because there is a high probability that the
departing traffic will cross the track of an aircraft inbound to
Heathrow Airport, which might be only 1,000 ft above." But since 2004
there have been 21 instances where planes have climbed above the 3000
ft "step".


Presumably it's much more of a problem with executive jets than
airliners. The former are much more likely to have crew unfamiliar with
the unusual route, and lower levels of TCAS equipment, as in this case.




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