On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:06:58 +1030, (Aidan Stanger)
wrote:

Robert Woolley wrote:

With roll-out of the fully accessible fleet in London, there is a
progressive withdrawal of the Mobility Bus network

Are you sure? UIVMM most of the Mobility Bus network is in the outer
suburbs, with long routes that penetrate into estates that regular
routes do not, to provide disabled and elderly people (and anyone else
who wants to use them) a 1 seat ride to the most popular destinations.

(a low frequency scheduled paratransit service).

It is low frequency (typically only two journeys, only 1 day per week)
and it is scheduled, but is it paratransit?

I thought "paratransit" referred to the (council operated) Dial-A-Ride
schemes.

I've used the phrase in this context as Mobility Buses have such low
frequencies and used specialised vehicles.

Don't forget that there is a progressive introduction of mainstream
bus routes in deeply residential areas....


Rob.
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk

Robert Woolley wrote:

(a low frequency scheduled paratransit service).

It is low frequency (typically only two journeys, only 1 day per week)
and it is scheduled, but is it paratransit?

I thought "paratransit" referred to the (council operated) Dial-A-Ride
schemes.

I've used the phrase in this context as Mobility Buses have such low
frequencies and used specialised vehicles.

Not that specialised - I've known them to be used on normal buses
occasionally.

Don't forget that there is a progressive introduction of mainstream
bus routes in deeply residential areas....

They're not progressing with it very quickly - it will take a long time
to get them everywhere the mobility buses go.

In misc.transport.urban-transit Robert Woolley wrote:
wrote:
In misc.transport.urban-transit Access Systems wrote:
In misc.transport.urban-transit Robert Woolley wrote:
wrote:
unfortunately for some stupid reason most of those buses do not actually
have the ramp installed.
there are some 5,600 fully accessible buses in service in London,
compared to a quoted figure on MTA's web page at
LOW floor does not = accessible

The vast majority of these have ramps.
Low floor plus ramp looks pretty accessible to me.

low floor with ramp is accessible, unless a lot of ramps have been
retrofitted the first couple thousand low floors were delived without the
ramps....will double check with my source in London.

my check shows that as of Sept approx 3500 of the 5500 LT buses are Low
floor, most of these have a kneeling feature and space on board for
wheelchairs but most do not comply with DDA (UK-ADA) "only the low floor
buses with the double center doors have the power ramps"

LT proclaims that their bus fleet will be fully DDA compliant by 2017

LT ceased to exist on 15 July.

right, name change old habit

The 2017 timetable relates to DDA requirements. Routemasters are

but you were comparing with NYC, NYCTA buses are 100% ADA compliant.

rapidly becoming the last non accessible vehicles in London and
they're being withdrawn. Soon they'll only be left on a couple of
special 'heritage; routes....

and people with disabilities don't need to travel on heritage routes???

Bob

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin
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Access Systems wrote:
In misc.transport.urban-transit Robert Woolley
wrote:

Routemasters are rapidly becoming the last non accessible vehicles
in London and they're being withdrawn. Soon they'll only be left
on a couple of special 'heritage; routes....

and people with disabilities don't need to travel on heritage
routes???

No, because other routes using fully accessible buses will be available for
the same journeys.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Access Systems wrote in message ...
In misc.transport.urban-transit Boltar wrote:
Access Systems wrote in message ...
also a much higher percentage of the subway (tube) stations are
accessible..

Thats because they're not nearly so deep down and so its a lot easier to

only a small percentage are "deep" what's the problem with the rest

I think you missed the point.The majority of underground LU stations are
deep down bored tunnel. Installing a life means boring a shaft , not simply
cutting a hole in the roof as in NYC.


retro fit lifts. Though to be honest even assuming someone in a wheelchair
could get down to the platform , how they'd get on a tube train in the rush
hour beats me.

why should there be a problem...people in wheelchairs regularly ride NYC
and Tokyo subways at rush hour, what makes the tube any less possible.

Some types of tube trains are a lot smaller than subway trains, the platforms
are narrower and the platforms are not level with the train floors in most
cases. Also on the trains there is nowhere for a wheelchair to go other than
block the doorways causing a safety hazard.


this has always been the biggest obstacle to access, people who have never
been there (using a wheelchair) telling the users what they "can't" do
without ever bothering to find out what they "can do".

Anything can be done if you have a couple of billion to spare. LU doesn't.

everyone else uses, so start by making the busiest stations accessible.

See above.

B2003

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:01:27 -0000, Access Systems
wrote:

as an aside the loss of the World Trade center station on PATH and NYCTA
was a major loss for people with disabilites in NYC as it was the major
accessible station in lower Mannhatan and the substitute stations were for
the most part inaccessible.

The temporary PATH terminal which opened last month restored
accessibility to the E and downtown N/R platforms that are on the same
level as the former WTC Concourse.

--
Peter Schleifer
"Who mistook my steak for chicken?"

Access Systems wrote:

why should there be a problem...people in wheelchairs regularly ride NYC
and Tokyo subways at rush hour, what makes the tube any less possible.

The fact that it isn't so heavily subsidized.

In misc.transport.urban-transit Aidan Stanger wrote:
Access Systems wrote:

why should there be a problem...people in wheelchairs regularly ride NYC
and Tokyo subways at rush hour, what makes the tube any less possible.

The fact that it isn't so heavily subsidized.


BS if I ever heard it.

Bob
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin
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THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be
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In misc.transport.urban-transit Boltar wrote:
Access Systems wrote in message ...
In misc.transport.urban-transit Boltar wrote:
Access Systems wrote in message ...
also a much higher percentage of the subway (tube) stations are
accessible..
Thats because they're not nearly so deep down and so its a lot easier to

only a small percentage are "deep" what's the problem with the rest

I think you missed the point.The majority of underground LU stations are
deep down bored tunnel. Installing a life means boring a shaft , not simply
cutting a hole in the roof as in NYC.

only a few lines are deep, the rest are fairly shallow, and NYC has their
share of deep tunnels, boring a shaft is not as hard as it sounds (finding
a place to bore it is much harder)

retro fit lifts. Though to be honest even assuming someone in a wheelchair
could get down to the platform , how they'd get on a tube train in the rush
hour beats me.

why should there be a problem...people in wheelchairs regularly ride NYC
and Tokyo subways at rush hour, what makes the tube any less possible.

Some types of tube trains are a lot smaller than subway trains, the platforms

right the deep ones, but wheelchairs are not that big

are narrower and the platforms are not level with the train floors in most

narrow platforms are quite common in other cities, and as a few cities
have done raising a short section of the platform to floor height is quite
simple and inexpensive

cases. Also on the trains there is nowhere for a wheelchair to go other than
block the doorways causing a safety hazard.

in other words the same place as everyone else.

this has always been the biggest obstacle to access, people who have never
been there (using a wheelchair) telling the users what they "can't" do
without ever bothering to find out what they "can do".

Anything can be done if you have a couple of billion to spare. LU doesn't.

I found a long time ago, that is someone wants to do something they will
find a way, and if they don't want to do it they will find an excuse..

everyone else uses, so start by making the busiest stations accessible.

See above.

see answer above

Bob

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve Neither liberty nor safety", Benjamin Franklin
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NO HTML/PDF/RTF in e-mail
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THIS message and any attachments are CONFIDENTIAL and may be
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On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 18:12:31 -0000, Access Systems
wrote:

In misc.transport.urban-transit Aidan Stanger wrote:
Access Systems wrote:

why should there be a problem...people in wheelchairs regularly ride NYC
and Tokyo subways at rush hour, what makes the tube any less possible.

The fact that it isn't so heavily subsidized.


BS if I ever heard it.

Fine, what would you like - accessibility or service cuts?

Vehicle replacement (providing trains with wheelchair access) is
relatively easy. Putting access into a deep level mass transit system
is much more easy
--
rob at robertwoolley dot co dot uk