On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 03:31:37 -0800 (PST)
David B wrote:
And I'm sick of people telling us how easy our job is when they dont
have experience of both jobs. And no you can't compare a car and as
you don't drive both. I don't drive an automated train; I'm not a tube

So go on , tell us , whats so hard about driving a train?

Do you have to steer? No.
Do you have to judge other traffic and react accordingly? No.
Do you have to watch out for pedestrians? No.
Do you have to change gear? No.

On the tube they don't even have to worry about hitting anything because
it'll just trip if they go past a red signal.

Oh, but let be guess, you have to learn stopping distances so you don't
miss a station and "learn your route". Yeah, I bet that takes ****ing ages.

driver. But I do hold a manual license to drive coaches so I know what
one is like compared with the other. You're right most muppets have a

Are you seriously going to claim that driving a train is harder than driving
a bus?

Nurses deserve more pay. Why should GPs get over 100k when nurses get
a quarter that?

I don't think anyone will argue that nurses shouldn't be paid more. That
doesn't mean your exhorbitant salary is justified for your **** easy job.

B2003

In message
, at
03:31:37 on Thu, 15 Dec 2011, David B remarked:
Why should GPs get over 100k when nurses get a quarter that?

"Salaried GPs employed directly by PCTs earn between £53,781 to £81,158,
dependent on, among other factors, length of service and experience."

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details...lt.aspx?Id=553

Hospital doctors train for nine years, and when qualified earn from
£36,807.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 11:58:04 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
03:31:37 on Thu, 15 Dec 2011, David B remarked:
Why should GPs get over 100k when nurses get a quarter that?

"Salaried GPs employed directly by PCTs earn between £53,781 to £81,158,
dependent on, among other factors, length of service and experience."

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details...lt.aspx?Id=553

Hospital doctors train for nine years, and when qualified earn from
£36,807.

Wow, didn't realise it was that low for junior doctors. But obviously having o
to look after and diagnose perhaps hundreds of patients in a week is as of
nothing compared to pressing a door close button every few minutes.

B2003

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 04:37:41 -0800 (PST), Paul
uttered:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

Also from the ASLEF website

"The union’s members working in London Underground have voted
overwhelmingly to take action on Boxing Day. The dispute concerns the
union’s insistence that the day must be covered by volunteers.

The union balloted its 2,200 Underground drivers and they returned a
92.3% vote in favour of action.

The whole dispute has been about seeking equitable quality time off
for our members but recognising those who do operate the service may
need to be incentivised.



What do RMT members get for working Boxing day?

Dave

On Dec 15, 11:46*am, wrote:
So go on , tell us , whats so hard about driving a train?

Do you have to steer? No.

Nope, not as such, but you have to know where you're going, knowing
your route inside out with all possible diversionary routes and be
able to stop and challenge a wrong routing if it happens. The
signallers make mistakes too!

Do you have to judge other traffic and react accordingly? No.

Yes you do, if you have a train in the section in front of you, you're
going to bloody well stop! You will react differently approaching a
double yellow, single yellow or red signal.

Do you have to watch out for pedestrians? No.

Yes you do, level crossings, trackside workers, station platforms,
depots, yards and sidings

Do you have to change gear? No.

Depending on weather conditions, fog, snow, heavy rain, you will use a
different traction power setting accordingly!

On the tube they don't even have to worry about hitting anything because
it'll just trip if they go past a red signal.

Oh they do have to worry about it, if they did keep doing that they
wouldn't have a job before too long!

It's not a simple case of "sitting on your arse pushing a button",
it's all the other stuff that comes with it, like remembering the
rules and regulations (which are complicated and sometimes confusing,
but has to be learnt). For example knowing the difference between
"Single Line Working" and "Working of a Single Line", also speed
restrictions, if your safety system's isolated (AWS/TPWS) you can only
travel at a maximum speed of 40mph, UNLESS you have a competent person
with you in which case you can travel at 60mph, UNLESS there's fog or
falling snow then you can only travel at 40mph, UNLESS you also have
another system isolated (DSD) in which case blah blah blah....it's not
straightforward at all! Go to http://www.rgsonline.co.uk and browse
the Modules, look for yourself what we have to learn.

There's also the family life aspect, the shift work can make you miss
your loved ones for more than a week, you come home as they're going
to work or vice versa, ending up tired after a week of early starts
(3am), yet trying to mainting 100% concentration for up to 9 and a
half hours after 6 days in a row. When I say 100% concentration I do
mean that, you can NOT switch off at all whilst driving. Anything that
happens on the railway at speed needs to be dealt with ASAP. If you're
trundling along at 90mph and see a cow on the track or a broken rail
or some idiot playing chicken, you have to be on the ball to stop or
minimise any incident as much as possible. It can be boring as well at
times, doing the same route back and forth, however, you still need to
maintain 100% concentration for the above reasons.

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 16:52:57 -0800 (PST)
Joe wrote:
On Dec 15, 11:46=A0am, wrote:
So go on , tell us , whats so hard about driving a train?

Do you have to steer? No.

Nope, not as such, but you have to know where you're going, knowing
your route inside out with all possible diversionary routes and be
able to stop and challenge a wrong routing if it happens. The
signallers make mistakes too!

No doubt, but how is that any different to a car driver learning various routes
to work?

Do you have to judge other traffic and react accordingly? No.

Yes you do, if you have a train in the section in front of you, you're
going to bloody well stop! You will react differently approaching a
double yellow, single yellow or red signal.

So you see a yellow you slow, if you see a red you stop. Not rocket science.

Do you have to change gear? No.

Depending on weather conditions, fog, snow, heavy rain, you will use a
different traction power setting accordingly!

And hows that different to doing the same in a car?

It's not a simple case of "sitting on your arse pushing a button",

No, but neither is it the most complex job in the world either. Certainly
driving a tube train is NOT worth 50K, especially an automatic one.

There's also the family life aspect, the shift work can make you miss
your loved ones for more than a week, you come home as they're going
to work or vice versa, ending up tired after a week of early starts
(3am), yet trying to mainting 100% concentration for up to 9 and a

Plenty of people do shift work. They don't earn 50K.

happens on the railway at speed needs to be dealt with ASAP. If you're
trundling along at 90mph and see a cow on the track or a broken rail
or some idiot playing chicken, you have to be on the ball to stop or

If you doing 90mph in a train and there's an obstruction at any visible
distance ahead you're probably screwed so I can't see much point worrying
about it.

B2003

On 2011-12-16, d wrote:
On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 16:52:57 -0800 (PST)
Joe wrote:
On Dec 15, 11:46=A0am, wrote:
So go on , tell us , whats so hard about driving a train?

Do you have to steer? No.

Nope, not as such, but you have to know where you're going, knowing
your route inside out with all possible diversionary routes and be
able to stop and challenge a wrong routing if it happens. The
signallers make mistakes too!

No doubt, but how is that any different to a car driver learning various
routes to work?

Very few car/truck drivers learn their regular routes to the extent that
train drivers have to. Just where to turn and a few tricks about lane
changes and visibility problems.

Do you have to judge other traffic and react accordingly? No.

Yes you do, if you have a train in the section in front of you, you're
going to bloody well stop! You will react differently approaching a
double yellow, single yellow or red signal.

So you see a yellow you slow, if you see a red you stop. Not rocket science.

Given the stopping distances of trains and their variations under
changes in weather or something that a car driver would consider
insignificant, and needing to know what speed to slow to, which is
different for the same type of signal in different locations, yes it is
just about a science, and requires a level of knowledge of the route
that almost no car drivers achieve.


Do you have to change gear? No.

Depending on weather conditions, fog, snow, heavy rain, you will use a
different traction power setting accordingly!

And hows that different to doing the same in a car?

Not much, but you were trying to make out that the train should be
easier.

It's not a simple case of "sitting on your arse pushing a button",

No, but neither is it the most complex job in the world either. Certainly
driving a tube train is NOT worth 50K, especially an automatic one.

There's also the family life aspect, the shift work can make you miss
your loved ones for more than a week, you come home as they're going
to work or vice versa, ending up tired after a week of early starts
(3am), yet trying to mainting 100% concentration for up to 9 and a

Plenty of people do shift work. They don't earn 50K.

Read the news stories on the current dispute, some of which point out
that the pay rose to this level to replace a complicated set of extra
payments (mostly fully justified). And is your idea of equitable pay
rates that everyone should be reduced to the lowest level?

happens on the railway at speed needs to be dealt with ASAP. If you're
trundling along at 90mph and see a cow on the track or a broken rail
or some idiot playing chicken, you have to be on the ball to stop or

If you doing 90mph in a train and there's an obstruction at any visible
distance ahead you're probably screwed so I can't see much point worrying
about it.

You may be going to hit it whatever you do, but depending what is is
there may be a whole variety of sensible responses.

But then you don't actually want to know do you? You'll just go on
making the same sorts of complaints without ever thinking about the
visible circumstances, let alone the hidden ones. And of course you do
your job perfectly all the time, and are paid exactly what it is worth,
and always will be, and you will always have a job. Rhubarb!!!

Eric

--
ms fnd in a lbry

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:16:59 +0000
Eric wrote:
No doubt, but how is that any different to a car driver learning various
routes to work?

Very few car/truck drivers learn their regular routes to the extent that
train drivers have to. Just where to turn and a few tricks about lane
changes and visibility problems.

Am where the potholes are, where the speed cameras are, what are the alternative
routes if there's a traffic jam. Where are the shops along the way etc etc.
What does a train driver have to learn? Where the signals are and the speed
limits and .... anything else?

So you see a yellow you slow, if you see a red you stop. Not rocket science.

Given the stopping distances of trains and their variations under
changes in weather or something that a car driver would consider

The placing of the signals takes all that into account. Why do you think
there are yellow and double yellow in the first place?

payments (mostly fully justified). And is your idea of equitable pay
rates that everyone should be reduced to the lowest level?

No, but nor do I think the greedy *******s should be threatening a strike
for more money when they're already grossly overpaid for what they do.

If you doing 90mph in a train and there's an obstruction at any visible
distance ahead you're probably screwed so I can't see much point worrying
about it.

You may be going to hit it whatever you do, but depending what is is
there may be a whole variety of sensible responses.

Such as? What other options do you have after you put on the emergency brake?
Activate the secret levitation device so the train can jump over the obstacle?

But then you don't actually want to know do you? You'll just go on

Go on , tell us then.

visible circumstances, let alone the hidden ones. And of course you do
your job perfectly all the time, and are paid exactly what it is worth,
and always will be, and you will always have a job. Rhubarb!!!

I'm actually underpaid for what I do but its a recession so beggars etc...

B2003