Peter T. Daniels wrote:

Benefit? There's upwards of a billion Presidential Dollar coins
sitting in warehouses, because Congress mandated that vast numbers
more be minted than there was a collectors' market for; they shipped
them to banks, and eventually the banks shipped them back. (I've never
seen one. The last time I used a p.o. vending machine, at least two
years ago, I got both Sackies and Susan B's.) Just the storage is
costly

You clearly missed the mess whereby people could order the coins online with
free postage, which was intended as a way to get the coins into circulation
by allowing people on the ground to obtain them, in the hope they would go
on to use them and breed familiarity. Instead a lot of people just purchased
by the suitcase load on their credit cards to accumulate air miles then just
took the coins to their banks to pay off their CC bills. Eventually they
stopped credit card purchases.

On 01/01/2012 15:16, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

...and when particular note& coins have been phased out some shops have
been more willing to accept them past the official withdrawal date than
others.

At some sort of discount for the retailers, I presume.

On Jan 1, 10:16*am, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
In 1992 I bought some pound notes in Northern Ireland, because I would
be staying a few days in London after my speaking engagement in
Dublin. I was surprised to read on them that they were specifically
Northern Ireland currency, even though the were issued by the Bank of
England and legal tender throughout the United Kingdom (they said.)

"Legal tender" is one of the most misunderstood concepts going. It does
*not* specify which coins & notes must and must not be accepted by
retailers. It merely applies to the repayment of debts - if a debtor offers
payment in legal tender the creditor cannot *refuse* it without
relinquishing the debt. (A semi-practical example is of tax & fee protestors
eventually repaying with wheelbarrow loads of pound coins as a final gesture
of defiance.)

Retailers are free to accept and reject whatever notes and coins they like.
Examples include:

* A lot of shops don't accept the 50 note whilst some others will only
accept it above a minimum purchase
* A number in tourist areas and airports will accept major international
currencies but with varying policies on precisely which ones and how high a
denomination
* A lot of shops in Northern Ireland accept the Euro to attract crossborder
traffic from the Republic

(In 1992, when my Irish host drove us to Ulster for a day trip -- we
stopped at Downpatrick to see St. Patrick's tomb, and the most
unfortunate restoration of St. Patrick's Cathedral to its Victorian
splendor, as opposed to something approaching its original appearance
-- I rather doubt that they would have welcomed Irish pounds. He was
desperate to get back into Ireland before dark.)

...and when particular note & coins have been phased out some shops have
been more willing to accept them past the official withdrawal date than
others.

That's rather different from the clerk saying, "That's not money!" --
as opposed to, "We don't take Northern Ireland money," which in fact
proved not to be true.

The Arby's I sometimes go to has a sign up that they'll no longer
accept $100 bills because there are so many counterfeits in
circulation. (You hardly ever see $50s at all.)

I wonder what happened in 1933 when we finally gave up gold coins.

In 1965, when silver coins were replaced by clad coins, the old ones
weren't recalled or demonetized or anything; the ones that weren't in
the collectors pool were simply retired as they were deposited in
banks, presumably to eventually be melted down for whatever else
silver was used for. Similarly, when all paper money stopped being
issued except Federal Reserve Notes, they simply stayed in circulation
until they wore out. I remember at least three different kinds --
their designs were almost identical (the engraved scrollwork may have
differed), but the seal and serial numbers were in different colors --
one of them was Silver Certificates, I think with a blue seal. (FRNs
have a green seal.)

When I was little and we went to Canada for several summer vacations,
merchants on either side of the border would take the other's
currency, at a stated premium/discount that was considerably higher
than the exchange rate. That was, at best, a courtesy. Montreal
probably got flooded with greenbacks during Expo '67 (I was 15, I
didn't get to do much spending), and to this day they probably are
happy to take US currency.

For my time in Dublin, I never even saw Irish money -- my host refused
to let me pay for anything (fortunately, even in 1992 a VISA card
worked in bookstores). And back in London, it seemed every bank
(branch) had an ATM-like machine outside for currency exchange -- I
put in $100 in $20 bills and it gave me the appropriate amount in
sterling (less a hefty fee). In those days it had to deal with a dozen
or more currencies at least, so including US dollars was no big deal
-- but these days, does it accept anything but euros? Or is there
enough tourist trade from the odd-countries-out that they are so
publicly served?

In Antwerp they handed me my honorarium in cash. Several musuem
bookstores profited from my purchase of things I wouldn't have taken
if I'd been using "real money" -- but the exchange rate in 2004 didn't
favor the dollar.

On Jan 1, 11:57*am, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
Benefit? There's upwards of a billion Presidential Dollar coins
sitting in warehouses, because Congress mandated that vast numbers
more be minted than there was a collectors' market for; they shipped
them to banks, and eventually the banks shipped them back. (I've never
seen one. The last time I used a p.o. vending machine, at least two
years ago, I got both Sackies and Susan B's.) Just the storage is
costly

You clearly missed the mess whereby people could order the coins online with
free postage, which was intended as a way to get the coins into circulation
by allowing people on the ground to obtain them, in the hope they would go
on to use them and breed familiarity. Instead a lot of people just purchased
by the suitcase load on their credit cards to accumulate air miles then just
took the coins to their banks to pay off their CC bills. Eventually they
stopped credit card purchases.

That scam was discussed here not long ago.

It didn't keep the banks from handing them out when people made cash
withdrawals.

And it had nothing to do with the particular coins being offered -- it
would have worked just as well with Statehood Quarters or Lewis &
Clark Nickels or any ordinary coins.

On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 09:25:53 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote:

Similarly, when all paper money stopped being
issued except Federal Reserve Notes, they simply stayed in circulation
until they wore out. I remember at least three different kinds --
their designs were almost identical (the engraved scrollwork may have
differed), but the seal and serial numbers were in different colors --
one of them was Silver Certificates, I think with a blue seal. (FRNs
have a green seal.)

Silver Certificates have blue seals and numbers (I have a few stored
with some $2 bills), FRNs are green, and U.S. Notes (very rare) had
red. "Occupation Money" - specially printed for Hawaii after the
attack on Pearl Harbor and later used to pay GIs in Japan - had
yellow. Rarest of all now.

About 20 years ago I asked a family friend who was a coin and currency
dealer what the value of my Silver Certificates was. "Face Value", he
said. I didn't have enough to buy the "mini-Hershey Bar" of silver
that the Treasury was offering as an incentive (gimmick?) to get them
out of circulation.
--

Phil Kane - Beaverton, OR
PNW Beburg MP 28.0 - OE District

In article ,
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
"Legal tender" is one of the most misunderstood concepts going.

Very true!

It merely applies to the repayment of debts - if a debtor offers
payment in legal tender the creditor cannot *refuse* it without
relinquishing the debt.

This isn't true, however, proving your original point! See, for example,
http://www.royalmint.com/corporate/p...uidelines.aspx

--
Mike Bristow

On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 09:25:53 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote:

-- but these days, does it accept anything but euros? Or is there
enough tourist trade from the odd-countries-out that they are so
publicly served?

The ATMs in Israel will dispense in dollars, Euros, or NewShekels. A
far cry from the time I lived there in the 1960s when non-Israeli
currency was available only on the Lilienbloom Street "private market"
which in fact was supported by the Bank of Israel but one had to go
through a "doorway transaction" suitable for a B-movie scene....and
the exchange rate "on the street" was published on Page 2 of the
papers right next to the official banking exchange rate !
--

Phil Kane - Beaverton, OR
PNW Beburg MP 28.0 - OE District

On 01/01/2012 19:05, Phil Kane wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 09:25:53 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
wrote:

Similarly, when all paper money stopped being
issued except Federal Reserve Notes, they simply stayed in circulation
until they wore out. I remember at least three different kinds --
their designs were almost identical (the engraved scrollwork may have
differed), but the seal and serial numbers were in different colors --
one of them was Silver Certificates, I think with a blue seal. (FRNs
have a green seal.)

Silver Certificates have blue seals and numbers (I have a few stored
with some $2 bills), FRNs are green, and U.S. Notes (very rare) had
red. "Occupation Money" - specially printed for Hawaii after the
attack on Pearl Harbor and later used to pay GIs in Japan - had
yellow. Rarest of all now.

About 20 years ago I asked a family friend who was a coin and currency
dealer what the value of my Silver Certificates was. "Face Value", he
said. I didn't have enough to buy the "mini-Hershey Bar" of silver
that the Treasury was offering as an incentive (gimmick?) to get them
out of circulation.
--

Phil Kane - Beaverton, OR
PNW Beburg MP 28.0 - OE District

I don't quite understand how silver certificates worked. What I've
heard, you could take one to a bank and redeem it for silver. But how
would that silver actually be distributed?

Also, were silver certificates regularly used as general currency?

I don't quite understand how silver certificates worked. What I've
heard, you could take one to a bank and redeem it for silver. But how
would that silver actually be distributed?

You could redeem them for silver at Federal Reserve banks, of which
there aren't very many, not commercial banks. I believe they gave you
a small paper envelope with the appropriate amount of silver (not very
much for $1) inside. There were also silver coins that contained the
appropriate amount of silver, so you could go to any bank and swap
paper money for coins.

Also, were silver certificates regularly used as general currency?

Yes, back in the 1950s and early 1960s most dollar and five dollar
notes were silver certificates with blue seals. Since I was a child
at the time, I didn't often see a larger ones so I don't know what
color seals they had.

Even though large numbers of them were turned in for metal in the
1960s before the government stopped doing that, the bills from the
1950s are not considered rare by collectors, since so many were in
circulation.

R's,
John

worked in bookstores). And back in London, it seemed every bank
(branch) had an ATM-like machine outside for currency exchange -- I
put in $100 in $20 bills and it gave me the appropriate amount in
sterling (less a hefty fee).

These days, you just use the regular ATMs, since most people have ATM
or debit cards that can withdraw money from their home country bank
accounts. I still see occasional bill exchangers at airports.

R's,
John