On 26/12/2011 19:30, Analysis&Solutions wrote:
This is a bit late. Been been busy with other things...

http://gothamist.com/2011/12/16/mta_...tions_to_k.php

...The new partitions took some time to get right. New York City Transit's
assistant chief of bus training Wayne Galante tells NY1 that it took so long
because, "there was no shield available that could resist being cut by a knife,
was glare free and not too confining for drivers." But now they've found their
Goldilocks glass the partitions—which come in three types and cost between
$1,800 to $3,800 each— are getting installed bit by bit.

Transit officials say 121 buses have them now, with 300 expected to have them
by the end of the year. By March the MTA hopes to have them in 500 buses,
especially on "high assault routes" in Brooklyn, the Bronx and Upper Manhattan.
In addition the MTA has installed 207 bus cameras. 1,150 should be installed by
next year...


They've been in London for years, they have. But I don't know that they
are made of any particular type of plastic.

On Dec 26, 3:17*pm, "
wrote:

They've been in London for years, they have. But I don't know that they
are made of any particular type of plastic.-

I'm surprised London has that kind of crime--assaults on bus drivers.
Are London buses exact fare?

Until roughly 1970, bus drivers in major cities gave change so
passengers didn't need to have the exact fare in cash. But holdups
pushed transit carriers to go exact fare.

In writes:

Until roughly 1970, bus drivers in major cities gave change so
passengers didn't need to have the exact fare in cash. But holdups
pushed transit carriers to go exact fare.

methinks you mean "simplification and a speedup in boarding
pushed transit carriers to go exact fare"

--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

On Dec 26, 10:51*pm, danny burstein wrote:
In writes:
Until roughly 1970, bus drivers in major cities gave change so
passengers didn't need to have the exact fare in cash. *But holdups
pushed transit carriers to go exact fare.

methinks you mean "simplification and a speedup in boarding
* * * * * * * * * pushed transit carriers to go exact fare"


No, I meant to prevent holdups. They were a serious problem in the
late 1960s as urban conditions decayed.

Back in those days fares could be odd coin combinations, 15c in small
towns, I think 20c in NYC at the time; plus there were transfer and
zone fares in many places. While most passengers used exact change to
save themselves time, plenty of people expected change, especially if
a family was travelling.

I don't know about NYC, but in Phila, initially the driver could punch
a refund slip if a passenger overpaid. The slip could be cashed in at
the local bus garages. Obviously punching up a slip took time and
passengers arguing with the driver over change took time.

It also put transit in a bad light.

Charles Addams make a joke about it: a group of people were headed
down to a ferryboat in a cave operated by a hooded person. On the
edge of the boat was "exact fare required".

On 27/12/2011 14:57, wrote:
On Dec 26, 10:51 pm, danny wrote:
writes:
Until roughly 1970, bus drivers in major cities gave change so
passengers didn't need to have the exact fare in cash. But holdups
pushed transit carriers to go exact fare.

methinks you mean "simplification and a speedup in boarding
pushed transit carriers to go exact fare"


No, I meant to prevent holdups. They were a serious problem in the
late 1960s as urban conditions decayed.

Back in those days fares could be odd coin combinations, 15c in small
towns, I think 20c in NYC at the time; plus there were transfer and
zone fares in many places. While most passengers used exact change to
save themselves time, plenty of people expected change, especially if
a family was travelling.

I don't know about NYC, but in Phila, initially the driver could punch
a refund slip if a passenger overpaid. The slip could be cashed in at
the local bus garages. Obviously punching up a slip took time and
passengers arguing with the driver over change took time.


Could they not have also used it as partial fare payment?

On Dec 27, 12:38*pm, "
wrote:

I don't know about NYC, but in Phila, initially the driver could punch
a refund slip if a passenger overpaid. *The slip could be cashed in at
the local bus garages. *Obviously punching up a slip took time and
passengers arguing with the driver over change took time.

Could they not have also used it as partial fare payment?

No, they could only be redeemed.

At some point after the cutover, the fare refund slips were
discontinued. Apparently people accepted exact fare by that point and
were used to it. Also, SEPTA resumed selling token-packets at a
discount; and started selling passcards, so for regular riders, exact
fare wasn't an issue.

SEPTA, unlike NYC, accepts dollar bills on its buses. I don't know
why NYC's fareboxes aren't set up to handle that.

But unfortunately, in NYC and in Phila, bus drivers have been
assaulted, even killed, by nutcases for oddball reasons, such as a
dispute of a transfer or just because someone was agitated and wanted
to stab another person.

On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:43:18 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Are London buses exact fare?

No, though in London it is "buy before you board" in the central
area. But most use Oyster anyway.

Exact change policies are generally considered passenger unfriendly
in the UK, and are practiced only by a minority of bus operators.

Until roughly 1970, bus drivers in major cities gave change so
passengers didn't need to have the exact fare in cash. But holdups
pushed transit carriers to go exact fare.

Not in the UK, where change being given is the norm.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

In article ,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:43:18 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Are London buses exact fare?

No, though in London it is "buy before you board" in the central
area. But most use Oyster anyway.

Exact change policies are generally considered passenger unfriendly
in the UK, and are practiced only by a minority of bus operators.

Until roughly 1970, bus drivers in major cities gave change so
passengers didn't need to have the exact fare in cash. But holdups
pushed transit carriers to go exact fare.

Not in the UK, where change being given is the norm.

It still happens in the UK despite it helping to drive away all but regular
passengers. West Midlands Travel has exact fare only using fare boxes and no
fares information at bus stops.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
.net...
On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:43:18 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Are London buses exact fare?

No, though in London it is "buy before you board" in the central area.
But most use Oyster anyway.

Exact change policies are generally considered passenger unfriendly in the
UK, and are practiced only by a minority of bus operators.


As you say, it's a minority but there also seem to be regional variations.
Like another poster in u.t.l I've encountered exact change policies in the
West Midlands and also in Scotland.

Until roughly 1970, bus drivers in major cities gave change so
passengers didn't need to have the exact fare in cash. But holdups
pushed transit carriers to go exact fare.

Not in the UK, where change being given is the norm.


From the late 1960s in London the 'Red Arrow' routes in the centre, and some
busy routes elsewhere in London, adopted an exact change policy along with
use of a flat fare, at a time when other routes charged fares that varied
according to the distance that a passenger was travelling. So if you
boarded a bus 200 (traditional London fare system) at Wimbledon station,
you'd pay one fare if you were simply travelling the short hop to the top of
Wimbledon Hill, a higher fare if you were continuing once the bus continued
along Ridgway, and so on. But if you boarded a 501 (Red Arrow) at Waterloo,
you'd pay a fixed amount irrespective of whether you were taking a short hop
across Waterloo Bridge, or continuing to Holborn or beyond. However my
recollection is that this was done to speed boarding, not because of concern
over security for drivers.

Martin

On Dec 27, 8:55*am, "Martin Rich" wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote in message

.net...

On Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:43:18 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Are London buses exact fare?

No, though in London it is "buy before you board" in the central area.
But most use Oyster anyway.

Exact change policies are generally considered passenger unfriendly in the
UK, and are practiced only by a minority of bus operators.

As you say, it's a minority but there also seem to be regional variations..
Like another poster in u.t.l I've encountered exact change policies in the
West Midlands and also in Scotland.

Until roughly 1970, bus drivers in major cities gave change so
passengers didn't need to have the exact fare in cash. *But holdups
pushed transit carriers to go exact fare.

Not in the UK, where change being given is the norm.

From the late 1960s in London the 'Red Arrow' routes in the centre, and some
busy routes elsewhere in London, adopted an exact change policy along with
use of a flat fare, at a time when other routes charged fares that varied
according to the distance that a passenger was travelling. *So if you
boarded a bus 200 (traditional London fare system) at Wimbledon station,
you'd pay one fare if you were simply travelling the short hop to the top of
Wimbledon Hill, a higher fare if you were continuing once the bus continued
along Ridgway, and so on. *But if you boarded a 501 (Red Arrow) at Waterloo,
you'd pay a fixed amount irrespective of whether you were taking a short hop
across Waterloo Bridge, or continuing to Holborn or beyond. *However my
recollection is that this was done to speed boarding, not because of concern
over security for drivers.

NJT, which runs the buses throughout the state, uses a zone fare
system -- $1.50 for a short trip; a one-seat ride from in front of my
house in Jersey City to the 40th St. Port Authority Bus Terminal is
three zones (which is some non-even fare -- I haven't done it since
the base fare went up from $1.25 a while back), exact change cityward,
but to board in NYC, the signs say, you now _must_ stop at the ticket
booth on the ground floor before proceeding to the gate. (I did that
the couple of times I traveled that way -- it's really only convenient
to the theater district; if you have to add a subway fare in the city,
it's not economical -- the ticket booth clerks were very nasty -- but
other people boarded with simply cash. The driver doesn't check
receipts when one disembarks, though probably is supposed to.)

Some long-distance runs, such as Journal Square in Jersey City all the
way to Hackensack, are treated as local city runs, making regular
stops along the streets in JC with regular city buses. I think a few
commuter-bus-served routes leave from JSQ also that go down toward the
Shore. (Though the latest model of city bus has pretty nice padded
seats, and actual straps -- woven webbing like backpack straps --
rather than metal loops for standees to hold.)