In article ,
(Aurora) wrote:

On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 12:50:59 +0100, David Cantrell
wrote:

On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 06:29:21PM -0700, Aurora wrote:
On Wed, 26 Mar 2014 20:44:10 +0000, Robert
wrote:
Other hot news - there will be no toilets in the trains, nor any
specific accommodation for bicycles[1]: Crossrail is only in the
business of moving people.
Trains sans water closets from Reading to London are unacceptable.

Why not?

The expected journey time from Liverpool St to Maidenhead (the lookup
thingy on the Crossrail website doesn't know about Reading yet, although
the maps do) is 49 minutes. That's pretty much exactly the same as
Aldgate East to Wimbledon on the District Line.

The District Line would not be one's route of choice if travelling
between those stations.

How would you travel between those points, then?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 07:05:56
on Thu, 3 Apr 2014, remarked:
The expected journey time from Liverpool St to Maidenhead (the lookup
thingy on the Crossrail website doesn't know about Reading yet, although
the maps do) is 49 minutes. That's pretty much exactly the same as
Aldgate East to Wimbledon on the District Line.

The District Line would not be one's route of choice if travelling
between those stations.

How would you travel between those points, then?

Transport Direct says the quickest (by as much as 10 minutes) is change
at Monument/Bank for the W&C[1], then National Rail from Waterloo.

[1] No, not the "Water and Closet" Line!
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at
07:05:56 on Thu, 3 Apr 2014, remarked:
The expected journey time from Liverpool St to Maidenhead (the lookup
thingy on the Crossrail website doesn't know about Reading yet,
although the maps do) is 49 minutes. That's pretty much exactly the
same as Aldgate East to Wimbledon on the District Line.

The District Line would not be one's route of choice if travelling
between those stations.

How would you travel between those points, then?

Transport Direct says the quickest (by as much as 10 minutes) is
change at Monument/Bank for the W&C[1], then National Rail from
Waterloo.

[1] No, not the "Water and Closet" Line!

Fair enough. I'm used to comparison with journeys to East Putney/Putney. The
via SWT fares are higher. I expect that is not so in the case of Wimbledon.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 03/04/2014 16:22, wrote:

[Aldgate East to Wimbledon]

The District Line would not be one's route of choice if travelling
between those stations.

How would you travel between those points, then?

Transport Direct says the quickest (by as much as 10 minutes) is
change at Monument/Bank for the W&C[1], then National Rail from
Waterloo.

[1] No, not the "Water and Closet" Line!

Fair enough. I'm used to comparison with journeys to East Putney/Putney. The
via SWT fares are higher. I expect that is not so in the case of Wimbledon.

It is the case.

Stay on the Tube and you pay the TfL rate fare. Use the Tube and NR and
you pay the more expensive 'through fare' (unless the NR line in
question is subject to the TfL rate, but in this case it's not [1]).

Fares can be checked using the fare finder he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/fares/single-fare-finder


-----
[1] This map shows which rate is charged on NR lines in London - red is
the NR rate, green is the TfL rate:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/national-rail-map.pdf

In article , (Mizter T) wrote:

On 03/04/2014 16:22, wrote:

[Aldgate East to Wimbledon]

The District Line would not be one's route of choice if travelling
between those stations.

How would you travel between those points, then?

Transport Direct says the quickest (by as much as 10 minutes) is
change at Monument/Bank for the W&C[1], then National Rail from
Waterloo.

[1] No, not the "Water and Closet" Line!

Fair enough. I'm used to comparison with journeys to East Putney/Putney.
The via SWT fares are higher. I expect that is not so in the case of
Wimbledon.

It is the case.

Stay on the Tube and you pay the TfL rate fare. Use the Tube and NR
and you pay the more expensive 'through fare' (unless the NR line in
question is subject to the TfL rate, but in this case it's not [1]).

Fares can be checked using the fare finder he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/fares/single-fare-finder


-----
[1] This map shows which rate is charged on NR lines in London - red
is the NR rate, green is the TfL rate:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/national-rail-map.pdf

But if you use Oyster there is only one gateline at Wimbledon. What do you
get charged if you touch in at Waterloo or Vauxhall or not?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 03/04/2014 17:23, wrote:
[...]
Fair enough. I'm used to comparison with journeys to East Putney/Putney.
The via SWT fares are higher. I expect that is not so in the case of
Wimbledon.

It is the case.

Stay on the Tube and you pay the TfL rate fare. Use the Tube and NR
and you pay the more expensive 'through fare' (unless the NR line in
question is subject to the TfL rate, but in this case it's not [1]).

Fares can be checked using the fare finder he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/fares/single-fare-finder

But if you use Oyster there is only one gateline at Wimbledon. What do you
get charged if you touch in at Waterloo or Vauxhall or not?

You can look up specific fares on the fare finder link I gave above.

The system knows if you travelled on NR via Waterloo (or Vauxhall),
because you'd have touched-out at the Tube gateline and touched-in at
the NR gateline.

(If you were to somehow escape Waterloo Tube station without
touching-out, and get on to the Waterloo mainline platforms without
touching-in, then on arrival at Wimbledon the system would assume you'd
arrived on the Underground - of course you would also have made the
Waterloo to Wimbledon journey on SWT without a valid ticket.)

"Mizter T" wrote

(If you were to somehow escape Waterloo Tube station without touching-out,
and get on to the Waterloo mainline platforms without touching-in, then on
arrival at Wimbledon the system would assume you'd arrived on the
Underground - of course you would also have made the Waterloo to Wimbledon
journey on SWT without a valid ticket.)

Suppose you touch in at Kensington Olympia and touch out at Wimbledon. Does
the system know whether you've used LUL throughout, via Earls Court, or NR
throughout, via Clapham Junction? Does it take account of the day/time and
whether the Kensington Olympia - Earls Court service is actually running?

Peter

In message , at 17:01:09 on Thu, 3 Apr 2014,
Mizter T remarked:

I'm used to comparison with journeys to East Putney/Putney. The
via SWT fares are higher. I expect that is not so in the case of Wimbledon.

It is the case.

Are we assuming everyone wants the cheapest journey, irrespective of how
long it takes, or the facilities[tm] available on the trains?
--
Roland Perry

On 03/04/2014 19:31, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 17:01:09 on Thu, 3 Apr 2014,
Mizter T remarked:

I'm used to comparison with journeys to East Putney/Putney. The
via SWT fares are higher. I expect that is not so in the case of
Wimbledon.

It is the case.

Are we assuming everyone wants the cheapest journey, irrespective of how
long it takes, or the facilities[tm] available on the trains?

I wasn't assuming anything along those lines, merely addressing Colin's
question (or rather erroneous expectation) with regards to the fares.

For such a journey the fares will undoubtedly be a consideration for
some though, especially given the fact there's not a huge time saving in
going via Waterloo/SWT.

It's not quite the same as some of the cheaper route options which avoid
zone 1 (which exist on London Overground), where the extra journey time
can be rather more than 10 minutes.

Re the facilities issue - there are no loos on the class 455 trains
which provide the bulk of the Waterloo to Wimbledon service. Such
facilities exist at the aptly named Waterloo, of course.

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Thu, 3 Apr 2014 18:08:24 +0100, "Peter Masson"
wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote

(If you were to somehow escape Waterloo Tube station without
touching-out, and get on to the Waterloo mainline platforms without
touching-in, then on arrival at Wimbledon the system would assume you'd
arrived on the Underground - of course you would also have made the
Waterloo to Wimbledon journey on SWT without a valid ticket.)

Suppose you touch in at Kensington Olympia and touch out at Wimbledon.
Does the system know whether you've used LUL throughout, via Earls Court,
or NR throughout, via Clapham Junction? Does it take account of the
day/time and whether the Kensington Olympia - Earls Court service is
actually running?

Very interesting example. Looking at the fares finder shows that it is
priced on the TfL fare scale regardless of mode *provided* you don't
go via Zone 1 (where higher fares apply). Therefore the SWT service is
treated as being on the TfL PAYG tariff. To make it fair the base
fare should be priced as TfL / NR with an alternative fare made
available via West Brompton where there are pink validators to
register this route. I recognise this does NOT cover the possibility
of travel via Earls Court, which does not have pink validators, but
the District Line service from Olympia is very limited these days.

Checking the fare to Earsfield from Olympia shows it is more expensive
at all times compared to Wimbledon because it is priced on the TfL /
NR tariff. This is not the only inconsistency in pricing where there
are differing applications of TfL, NR and TfL / NR tariffs.

I have yet to find any fares which require the use of the pink
validators at Clapham Junction given there are no fares from north or
north east London routed via CJ onto Southern or SWT services. They're
just routed via Zone 1. This is important if you hold a Z23 travelcard
and want to travel from say Wandsworth Town to Crouch Hill. That
journey is priced via Zone 1 even though it is perfectly viable,
though slow, to use the Overground via Willesden and Gospel Oak.
Therefore you can travel entirely within your zones but the lack of a
priced PAYG fare means you will be surcharged for Zone 1 even if you
do not travel through it. The only way to avoid the surcharge is to
exit and then re-enter at Clapham Junction which breaks the journey.

I seem to remember running into that problem trying to do Highbury and
Islington to Clapham Junction too.

--
Colin Rosenstiel