The speed of the Overground from highbury down to shadwell is underwhelming
to say the least. Slow ponderous acceleration up to probably nothing more than
25mph and then braking from what seems like 300m before the station. Are the
378s just not up to the job of running a metro service or is there a deliberate
policy of a leisurely pace to operations?

--
Spud

wrote in message
...
The speed of the Overground from highbury down to shadwell is
underwhelming
to say the least. Slow ponderous acceleration up to probably nothing more
than
25mph and then braking from what seems like 300m before the station. Are
the
378s just not up to the job of running a metro service or is there a
deliberate
policy of a leisurely pace to operations?

--
Spud


I did a trip from Sydenham to Hoxton the other day and the trains seem to
run to reasonable speed out on the main line south of New Cross Gate. The
East London Line was always a rather leisurely affair in its Underground
days so I suspect the Overground has inherited the same line speeds.

--
DAS

Long, long ago the service from Richmond via Highbury & Islington terminated
at Broad Street, not Stratford. (There were no passenger trains between
Canonbury and Stratford!) Between Dalston Junction and Old Street, those
trains ran quite a bit faster than the current Overground trains.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:51:21 -0000
"D A Stocks" wrote:
wrote in message
...
The speed of the Overground from highbury down to shadwell is
underwhelming
to say the least. Slow ponderous acceleration up to probably nothing more
than
25mph and then braking from what seems like 300m before the station. Are
the
378s just not up to the job of running a metro service or is there a
deliberate
policy of a leisurely pace to operations?

--
Spud


I did a trip from Sydenham to Hoxton the other day and the trains seem to
run to reasonable speed out on the main line south of New Cross Gate. The
East London Line was always a rather leisurely affair in its Underground
days so I suspect the Overground has inherited the same line speeds.

I haven't been that far down on it so I'll take your word for it, but the
pace on the ELL is a joke. Coupled with waiting for the train to leave
highbury plus frequent pointless waits at Dalson Junction it makes it a poor
2nd choice for getting to east london from there when the Victoria+Jubilee
to canada water is - on my tests - is frequently 10 minutes faster to do
probably almost twice the distance.

--
Spud

On 2014-11-21 11:09:35 +0000, d said:

The speed of the Overground from highbury down to shadwell is underwhelming
to say the least. Slow ponderous acceleration up to probably nothing more than
25mph and then braking from what seems like 300m before the station. Are the
378s just not up to the job of running a metro service or is there a deliberate
policy of a leisurely pace to operations?

I remarked on this not long after it opened. Living by Dalston Junction
I use it a lot. The stations aren't that far apart and there's a fairly
tight curve between Hoxton and Shoreditch High Street. They go fairly
fast from DJ to Highbury. But yes, they don't work like tube trains.

E.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 22:19:04 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

I think TfL schedule the Overground services fairly loosely with
recovery margins to ensure good time keeping. I agree that the service
can be / feels slow on the ELL core.

Is good time keeping along the route important? Instead of having
faster journeys when possible with more recovery time at the ends.

--
jhk

On Friday, 21 November 2014 22:32:05 UTC, Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:
On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 22:19:04 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:

I think TfL schedule the Overground services fairly loosely with
recovery margins to ensure good time keeping. I agree that the service
can be / feels slow on the ELL core.

Is good time keeping along the route important? Instead of having
faster journeys when possible with more recovery time at the ends.

Very much so, of the 4 southern routes only the single stop branch to New Cross
doesn't have to fit in with other services. Good timekeeping is also important when
each branch only has a 4tph service - it's only between Highbury & Islington and Surrey
Quays that it's truly a "turn up and go" service.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 23:07:15 +0000
Paul Corfield wrote:
making me nervous about making my connection. Once we were allowed to
depart (after umpteen freights and stock transfers were routed across
our path) the driver gave us a spritely run which probably clawed back
about 2 minutes of the delay. This meant it was less of a mad dash at
Gospel Oak for the Barking train. If that "catch up" time wasn't in
the run times then the connection may well have been missed extending
my journey time by 15 minutes.

Of course you could look at it from another point of view - if your train
had been going faster it could have got past the crossover before all
those other trains turned up.

Several of the routes do have closely spaced stations so there's
little point drawing a load of electricity to accelerate quickly and
then have to jam the brakes on. It's also not terribly comfortable for
passegers.

Doesn't seem to bother anyone on the ATO controlled tube lines which accelerate
the trains like scalded cats.

Punctuality and reliability are highly valued by passengers even if

Its supposed to be a turn up and go metro service. I doubt anyone seriously
checks the timetable beforehand. So long as trains turn up every 3 or 4
minutes thats all that matters.

The final point to make is that the slowish running speed doesn't seem
to deter passengers given how overloaded the trains are. If they were

Well its detered me. If I continue on the victoria and change at green
park to the jubilee it almost always gets me to canada water quicker than
the ELL even though its a much longer distance.

see the point. Let's face it the network is vastly better than what
was there before and it is receiving hundreds of millions of extra
investment to raise capacity.

Personally I think the ELL should have remained a tube line and stayed on
its own tracks. Running over NR lines is just asking for delays plus the
longer the route is the more than can go wrong.

--
Spud

On Saturday, 22 November 2014 11:01:54 UTC, wrote:
Punctuality and reliability are highly valued by passengers even if

Its supposed to be a turn up and go metro service. I doubt anyone seriously
checks the timetable beforehand. So long as trains turn up every 3 or 4
minutes thats all that matters.

It isn't though, passengers to/from the southern branches seem to treat it as a timetabled
service on the whole - at my local station (Norwood Junction) the bulk of passengers in the
morning peak turn up just before the train. It might be only 4tph but equally spaced at the
same times all day so it's easy for people to get used to the times, which helps.

The final point to make is that the slowish running speed doesn't seem
to deter passengers given how overloaded the trains are. If they were

Well its detered me. If I continue on the victoria and change at green
park to the jubilee it almost always gets me to canada water quicker than
the ELL even though its a much longer distance.

But with the inconvenience of the not very convenient change at Green Park.

Personally I think the ELL should have remained a tube line and stayed on
its own tracks. Running over NR lines is just asking for delays plus the
longer the route is the more than can go wrong.

I thought that too and that the ELL "extensions" were a white elephant -
creating a fake "new" service. I was wrong though, and the passenger
numbers seem to prove there was a latent demand there. I rarely use it
myself but the trains are standing only at Norwood Junction in the mornings,
and rammed by the time they get to the old ELL.

On that route it's also had the side-effect of a far better service to London
Bridge on the Croydon route, which surprised me - the reduced London Bridge
service has less crowding. The downside is stations between New Cross Gate
and Anerley have a far worse service to East Croydon and beyond than previously;
as a result Norwood Junction is actually used as an interchange these days.

Despite all the NR line running it's remarkably reliable!

On 2014\11\22 15:49, Mark wrote:
On Saturday, 22 November 2014 11:01:54 UTC, wrote:
Punctuality and reliability are highly valued by passengers even if

Its supposed to be a turn up and go metro service. I doubt anyone seriously
checks the timetable beforehand. So long as trains turn up every 3 or 4
minutes thats all that matters.

It isn't though, passengers to/from the southern branches seem to treat it as a timetabled
service on the whole - at my local station (Norwood Junction) the bulk of passengers in the
morning peak turn up just before the train. It might be only 4tph but equally spaced at the
same times all day so it's easy for people to get used to the times, which helps.

For much of the week, the trains to and from Crystal Palace and Croydon
follow each other on and off the main section instead of being about 7
minutes apart with the New Cross and Clapham trains between them. So
anyone commuting between, say Brockley and Wapping has a very bunched
service. Was that really the only way to fit the trains in?

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cm...-timetable.pdf