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Old April 9th 15, 08:04 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default No Woolwich Ferry because of fog?

Hasn't radar been around for oh , 70 years or so? And how do they cope in the
dark?

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Old April 9th 15, 08:26 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default No Woolwich Ferry because of fog?

On Thursday, 9 April 2015 09:04:24 UTC+1, wrote:
Hasn't radar been around for oh , 70 years or so? And how do they cope in the
dark?

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The ferry at Leghorn uses a foghorn.
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Old April 9th 15, 12:28 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default No Woolwich Ferry because of fog?

On Thursday, 9 April 2015 11:58:22 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
d wrote:
Hasn't radar been around for oh , 70 years or so? And how do they
cope in the dark?


Just think of the the fuss there'd be if a ferry rolled over a
canoe/kayak in the fog. Radar doesn't show such things.


But if the people who have kayaks could somehow heat them up they would show up on infra-red. Can they do that?
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Old April 9th 15, 01:59 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default No Woolwich Ferry because of fog?

On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:59:38 +0100, "Robin" wrote:

wrote:
Hasn't radar been around for oh , 70 years or so? And how do they
cope in the dark?


Just think of the the fuss there'd be if a ferry rolled over a
canoe/kayak in the fog. Radar doesn't show such things.


https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/public/c4/solasv/index.html

Regulation 19

2.1 All ships irrespective of size shall have:

2.1.7 if less than 150 gross tonnage and if practicable, a radar
reflector or other means, to enable detection by ships navigating by
radar at both 9 and 3 GHz;

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Old April 9th 15, 02:01 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default No Woolwich Ferry because of fog?

In message , at 11:59:38 on Thu, 9 Apr 2015,
Robin remarked:
Hasn't radar been around for oh , 70 years or so? And how do they
cope in the dark?


Just think of the the fuss there'd be if a ferry rolled over a
canoe/kayak in the fog. Radar doesn't show such things. So I can
understand the operators approach. I may not like it but they are just
responding to the risk-aversion/someone-must-be-blamed culture endemic
now in Britain.

Dark is different. The ferries have lamps. Canoers etc must have a torch
they can use in sufficient time to prevent collision and all but the
most stupid will have reflective clothing and show a light.


I highly suspect that things like the Woolwich Ferry are craft that
*everyone* has to aware of, and beware of, and give way to. A bit like
HSTs at level crossings.
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Old April 9th 15, 08:32 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default No Woolwich Ferry because of fog?

Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:
On Thu, 9 Apr 2015 11:59:38 +0100, "Robin" wrote:

d wrote:
Hasn't radar been around for oh , 70 years or so? And how do they
cope in the dark?


Just think of the the fuss there'd be if a ferry rolled over a
canoe/kayak in the fog. Radar doesn't show such things.


https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/public/c4/solasv/index.html

Regulation 19

2.1 All ships irrespective of size shall have:

2.1.7 if less than 150 gross tonnage and if practicable, a radar
reflector or other means, to enable detection by ships navigating by
radar at both 9 and 3 GHz;


Thanks for that. Interesting; and at first blush at odds with practice -
including the practice of some former colleagues who were very compliant
with such legislation.

But I then see also that Regulation 1 provides:

"2. The Administration may decide to what extent this chapter
shall apply to ships operating solely in waters landward of the
baselines which are established in accordance with international law."

on which note guidance note 6 adds:

"6. UK Internal Waters include waters categorised by the Merchant
Shipping (Categorisation of Waters) Regulations 1992 (SI 1992/2356)
which are listed in MSN 1837 - Categorisation of Waters. Such waters are
not regarded as "sea" for the purposes of Merchant Shipping legislation
(except for Marine Pollution regulations).

I find then that
https://www.gov.uk/inland-waterways-...-inland-waters
points for the scope of inland waterways in the UK to the MCA site at
https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/public/c4...ocid=453055527
which shows the Thames as being inland waters:

"In winter within a line from Colne Point to Whitstable
In summer within a line from Clacton Pier to Reculvers"

So I thunk that perhaps after all reg. 19 doesn't apply to canoes on the
Tideway at Woolwich.

Of course the UK may also have exercised its right under para. 2 of
regulation 1 to apply reg 19 inland; but then it may also have exercised
its right under para. 4 not to apply reg. 19 to vessels under 150 tons.
So, as so often, I'm lost without access to consolidated/keeled
statutes to fathom the law and navigate its reefs



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Robin
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Old April 10th 15, 02:13 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default No Woolwich Ferry because of fog?

On Thu, 09 Apr 2015 15:59:18 +0200, Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:

2.1 All ships irrespective of size shall have:


Is there a definition of ship given anywhere? If not, what dictionary
does legislation favour these days?

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Old April 13th 15, 08:52 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default No Woolwich Ferry because of fog?

On Thursday, 9 April 2015 16:09:33 UTC+2, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 11:59:38 on Thu, 9 Apr 2015,
Robin remarked:
Hasn't radar been around for oh , 70 years or so? And how do they
cope in the dark?


Just think of the the fuss there'd be if a ferry rolled over a
canoe/kayak in the fog. Radar doesn't show such things. So I can
understand the operators approach. I may not like it but they are just
responding to the risk-aversion/someone-must-be-blamed culture endemic
now in Britain.

Dark is different. The ferries have lamps. Canoers etc must have a torch
they can use in sufficient time to prevent collision and all but the
most stupid will have reflective clothing and show a light.


I highly suspect that things like the Woolwich Ferry are craft that
*everyone* has to aware of, and beware of, and give way to. A bit like
HSTs at level crossings.


I disagree. The ferries are relatively manoueverable and some pretty substantial ships make their way up the Thames past Woolwich from time to time. Certainly everyone has to be aware of them, but there will be situations in which the ferry is the give-way vessel. The rules for the prevention of collision at sea give a variety of general rules regarding right of way, and there will no doubt be local regulations from the PLA, as well as active control particularly when larger vessels are making their way up or down the river.

Robin


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