In article ,
(Steve Dulieu) wrote:

Did the driver on P4 make an announcement that the P3 train
would depart first?

I could here them perfectly clearly before I alighted from the rear

At Arnos Grove, they occasionally make announcements that Platform 3 is
the next train to London. Nobody moves. They then say "The next train to
London is platform 3, the middle platform". Then, everyone moves.

Did the driver actually say "The train opposite is the first train"?
Nobody knows the platform numbers on the tube - indeed, it never occurred
to me that there would be platform numbers.

J

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message ...
In article , TheOneKEA
writes
I've been reading some of the old threads in this newsgroup along with
Clive's Piccadilly Line page (which FINALLY helped me figure out how
the Heathrow loop works), and I was just wondering if there's any news
on what sort of Piccadilly Line services will be run to Heathrow after
Terminal 5 is opened.

Well, the plan *was* that half the trains would continue to run round
the loop, not serving T5, while the other half would run to Terminal 5
and so would miss out T4.

Of course, it could well all have changed by now.

I've been thinking that it would be less confusing if they reversed the
direction that trains go to T4 when T5 opens and the train terminates at T4.
So all trains initially go through T123 then diverge , half going to T4 and
there other half going to T5 so you';d have a simple split on the line
diagram. This would also mean that someone who wanted to go to T4 but ended up
on a T5 train wouldn't have to go all the way back to Hatton Cross. Just my
2ps worth.

B2003

"Boltar" wrote in message
om...

I've been thinking that it would be less confusing if they
reversed the direction that trains go to T4 when T5
opens and the train terminates at T4. So all trains
initially go through T123 then diverge , half going to
T4 and there other half going to T5 so you';d have a
simple split on the line diagram. This would also mean
that someone who wanted to go to T4 but ended up
on a T5 train wouldn't have to go all the way back to
Hatton Cross.

But it *would* mean that someone who wanted to go to T5 but ended up
on a T4 train would have to go all the way back to Hatton Cross, which they
wouldn't under the current plan.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
"Boltar" wrote in message
om...

I've been thinking that it would be less confusing if they
reversed the direction that trains go to T4 when T5
opens and the train terminates at T4. So all trains
initially go through T123 then diverge , half going to
T4 and there other half going to T5 so you';d have a
simple split on the line diagram. This would also mean
that someone who wanted to go to T4 but ended up
on a T5 train wouldn't have to go all the way back to
Hatton Cross.

But it *would* mean that someone who wanted to go to T5 but ended up
on a T4 train would have to go all the way back to Hatton Cross, which they
wouldn't under the current plan.

No , they'd just got back to T123. What I'm suggesting is

T5 ----\
\---T123--- Hatton cross ---
/
T4 ----/

B2003

On 19 Feb 2004 07:12:10 -0800, (Boltar) wrote:

"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
"Boltar" wrote in message
om...

I've been thinking that it would be less confusing if they
reversed the direction that trains go to T4 when T5
opens and the train terminates at T4. So all trains
initially go through T123 then diverge , half going to
T4 and there other half going to T5 so you';d have a
simple split on the line diagram. This would also mean
that someone who wanted to go to T4 but ended up
on a T5 train wouldn't have to go all the way back to
Hatton Cross.

But it *would* mean that someone who wanted to go to T5 but ended up
on a T4 train would have to go all the way back to Hatton Cross, which they
wouldn't under the current plan.

No , they'd just got back to T123. What I'm suggesting is

T5 ----\
\---T123--- Hatton cross ---
/
T4 ----/

but your proposal reverses the direction of the *single track* loop line
between T123 and T4. You are assuming that the train reverses at T4 and
goes back to T123. This would mean bi-directional working on a single
track line which would severely reduce the headway to T4.

I appreciate you can argue about whether to go clockwise or
anti-clockwise round the loop but it is too late to change things now.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In ,
Paul Corfield typed:

.... your proposal reverses the direction of the *single track* loop
line
between T123 and T4. You are assuming that the train reverses at T4
and
goes back to T123. This would mean bi-directional working on a single
track line which would severely reduce the headway to T4.


It would *increase* the headway - trains would not be able to
follow each other so closely.




Bob

In article , Paul Corfield
writes
but your proposal reverses the direction of the *single track* loop line
between T123 and T4. You are assuming that the train reverses at T4 and
goes back to T123. This would mean bi-directional working on a single
track line which would severely reduce the headway to T4.

Increase the headway, reduce the frequency.

According to a WTT I have, the running time from T4 to T123 is 5
minutes. So even with stepping back of drivers, you're talking at least
11 minutes between trains, so 5.5 tph total.

In that WTT, the service on the Heathrow branch is 12 to 15 tph for most
of the time (including the peaks). If one-third of the trains served T4,
as is planned, that would be 4 to 5 tph.

So it's about doable, but it would be a very fragile timetable. If a
train is delayed for less than 5 minutes, the next T4 train won't be
able to get out of the platform at T123 and on to the single line before
it blocks the next T5 train. So you'll need to change destinations,
which means announcements and annoyance as people get off with all their
luggage so that they can get on the next one.

I appreciate you can argue about whether to go clockwise or
anti-clockwise round the loop but it is too late to change things now.

Anti-clockwise means rebuilding at Hatton Cross, and eastbound trains
from T4 having to cross the path of westbound trains.

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...

Anti-clockwise means rebuilding at Hatton
Cross, and eastbound trains from T4
having to cross the path of westbound trains.

I don't have my Quail map to hand, but ISTR the easiest way to reverse the
Heathrow loop would be to use existing structures at Northfields or Acton to
switch the directions of the whole branch.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In article , John Rowland
writes
I don't have my Quail map to hand, but ISTR the easiest way to reverse the
Heathrow loop would be to use existing structures at Northfields or Acton to
switch the directions of the whole branch.

I don't think it's workable at Acton. But perhaps at Northfield -
currently you've got something like this (from memory):

--------------------------------*-*-----------------
X #############
------------\ /-------*-*-----------------
\ /
\----] / [------*-*-----------------
/ X #############
Depot ---/ /--------*-*-----------------
access /
tracks ----/

and you could turn it into something like this:

------*------------S------------*-*-----------------
\ X #############
----*-E-*---\ /-------*-*-----------------
\ \ /
\-----\ \----] / [------*-*-----------------
\ / X #############
Depot ---*-----/ /--------*-*-----------------
access /
tracks ----------/

where S would be a storage track to compensate for the loss of some
depot space, and E would be an emergency crossover (S could also be used
as an emergency crossover).

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address