On 01/03/2017 09:17, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:44:37 on Wed, 1 Mar
2017, Neil Williams remarked:

It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the
passenger is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired,
spend it by travelling.

If that's the case then "Oyster will become like Contactless" is
meaningless, if the passenger can't perceive a difference (other than
the slower gate-opening).

It's not meaningless, because the back-end is changing.

OK, so the change is one that's only perceived by TfL, whereas the
passenger will see no change? Is that what you think it means.

The passenger will presumably notice if they can use different types of
fare capping to at present, or new discount schemes/ticket products are
brought in using the extra capabilities which will be available.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 01/03/2017 09:17, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:44:37 on Wed, 1 Mar
2017, Neil Williams remarked:

It will work *exactly the same way* as Oyster as far as the
passenger is concerned. Put money on, auto-top-up if desired,
spend it by travelling.

If that's the case then "Oyster will become like Contactless" is
meaningless, if the passenger can't perceive a difference (other than
the slower gate-opening).

It's not meaningless, because the back-end is changing.

OK, so the change is one that's only perceived by TfL, whereas the
passenger will see no change? Is that what you think it means.

The passenger will presumably notice if they can use different types of
fare capping to at present, or new discount schemes/ticket products are
brought in using the extra capabilities which will be available.

especially if he has to over-feed a card to pay for a load of individual
journeys, only to have the excess refunded when the back office cap is
applied

seems like a recipe for disaster in the making

tim

On 01.03.2017 12:29 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:43:29 on Wed, 1 Mar
2017, d remarked:

Only because they are young and dumb. Payback will be inevitable and
painful. We are, after all, less than ten years into this new era, and
the dust has barely had time to settle.

There is a big difference when *everybody* has some sort of photo or
social media posts from their past that they would be embarrassed
about, though. At that point, it won't be "what a pillock" but rather
it will be a "there but for the grace of god go I".

Maybe, but you need to wait until today's University students are senior
managers.

I'm not so sure about that. After all, *this* is social media, albeit text
only and anyone who knows anything about usenet could track down a load of
information about us on here.

Yes, it is, and they could.

And even though I use an alias I know its not foolproof and if someone
wanted to find out who I was then with a bit of effort they could and
then they'll know all my views which may or may not be a good fit with
Acme Plc or whoever. Luckily usenet is off the radar to most people
these days but its not 100% guaranteed especially when applying for
jobs with IT companies.

Which proves my point - until senior managers take an attitude of "there
but for the grace of god go I" regarding over-exuberant Usenet postings,
there is a risk. And despite Usenet being more widespread since the
eternal september, I don't think many senior managers have reached that
yet.

Speaking as a senior manager, I'm pretty sure there are postings I made on
Usenet in the 1980s I'd probably regret now, and being well aware of the
perils of social media would absolutely not be holding someone's youthful
indiscretions against them provided they're not of a nature that brings
into doubt their trustworthiness.

I suspect I am not unique and senior managers - in tech firms in particular
- are rather more forward thinking than you imagine. (Many of my peers do
not, for example, think a mobile boarding pass is the work of the devil and
don't insist on using a phone made of bakelite because the batteries in
those new fangled smartphones just don't last enough...)

On 01/03/2017 18:53, tim... wrote:


"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message

The passenger will presumably notice if they can use different types
of fare capping to at present, or new discount schemes/ticket products
are brought in using the extra capabilities which will be available.

especially if he has to over-feed a card to pay for a load of individual
journeys, only to have the excess refunded when the back office cap is
applied

Wouldn't they just need the money there ready for when the single,
capped, payment is required overnight?

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

This would only work (revenue risk wise) for Oyster cards with auto top-up set.

I suspect that back office Oyster cards without auto top-up set will calculate the balance after each journey, and push a top-up reminder to the readers if needed. This would still take some processing load off the gates, without exposing TfL to excessive revenue risk.

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 10:22:55 on Wed, 1
Mar 2017, Neil Williams remarked:

So they're removing an extremely useful piece of functionality?
Seriously? Doesn't surprise me given the ticket office closures. TfL
seems to be increasingly running things for the convenience of itself
rather than the passenger.

There will be advantages - weekly capping for one, not having to "pick
up" travel products another.

OK, so now we *have* found some features where the new Oyster card's
operation is different from the passenger's perception. I'm getting a
headache.

Contactless and Oyster already calculate some journey prices differently,
the Contactless technology being able to spot some peak/non-peak
combinations which are cheaper than the choices Oyster has to make based on
the history up to each touch in/out only.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 2017-03-01 18:53:00 +0000, tim... said:

especially if he has to over-feed a card to pay for a load of
individual journeys, only to have the excess refunded when the back
office cap is applied

seems like a recipe for disaster in the making

That is not how capping works. Capping works by stopping taking money
when the cap has been reached.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Clank wrote:

Speaking as a senior manager, I'm pretty sure there are postings I made on
Usenet in the 1980s I'd probably regret now, and being well aware of the
perils of social media would absolutely not be holding someone's youthful
indiscretions against them provided they're not of a nature that brings
into doubt their trustworthiness.


That certainly is common, although I can recall advising people as a systems
administrator back in the early 80s (when the internet, such as it was then, was
only researchers and students with real name .edu addresses) that the internet
was forever and that they needed to be a little more circumspect.

In article , d () wrote:

On Wed, 01 Mar 2017 09:37:46 -0600
wrote:
In article , (Someone
Somewhere) wrote:
Really? That the time to deal with either an Oyster or Contactless
card is lower bounded due in signficant part to either CPU cycles or
die size?

All aspects of the system affect processing speed.

Ultimately though, a networked systems is constrained by the speed of
data on a copper wire or fibre optic cable and thats capped by physics.

How much of the networking isn't fibre these days? How much that isn't won't
be by 2018? Compare 4G wireless data speeds with earlier generations. Copper
is just so passé.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 19:19:12 on Wed, 1 Mar 2017,
Clank remarked:

until senior managers take an attitude of "there but for the grace of
god go I" regarding over-exuberant Usenet postings, there is a risk.
And despite Usenet being more widespread since the eternal september,
I don't think many senior managers have reached that yet.

Speaking as a senior manager, I'm pretty sure there are postings I made on
Usenet in the 1980s I'd probably regret now, and being well aware of the
perils of social media would absolutely not be holding someone's youthful
indiscretions against them provided they're not of a nature that brings
into doubt their trustworthiness.

I suspect I am not unique and senior managers - in tech firms in particular
- are rather more forward thinking than you imagine.

A lot of senior managers I know still get someone to print out their
emails so they can read them. Beware viewing the world from inside a
tech-bubble.
--
Roland Perry