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-   -   Overhead wire in moorgate line stations (https://www.londonbanter.co.uk/london-transport/15525-overhead-wire-moorgate-line-stations.html)

[email protected] December 20th 17 05:45 PM

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 
On 19.12.17 19:54, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,
writes
Is there nothing that will force a pan drop?


If it rises too high, it will drop automatically.

I don't think there's any stock where the automatic power control
magnets drop the pan - they just trip the main breaker instead.

One Metro-North, for example, the M2 runs dual-mode DC on 3rd rail and
AC under the wire. I assume that the same happens with the newer M8.

As soon as that train's shoes come into contact with live 3rd rail, the
pantographs automatically come down.


What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.


Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

Offramp December 20th 17 06:16 PM

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 
Why do these threads carry on for so long?

Clive D.W. Feather December 20th 17 10:44 PM

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 
In article ,
writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.


Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.


So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

--
Clive D.W. Feather

[email protected] December 21st 17 12:24 AM

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 
On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,
writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.


Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.


So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.

Basil Jet[_4_] December 21st 17 03:07 AM

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 
On 2017\12\20 18:16, Offramp wrote:
Why do these threads carry on for so long?


To stop the pan coming off the end?

[email protected] December 21st 17 10:34 AM

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
" wrote:
On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,
writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.


So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.


So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all? Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail then hope the pan works because if
not then that'll be the whole line blocked with a dead train.


[email protected] December 21st 17 01:33 PM

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 
On 21.12.17 10:34, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
" wrote:
On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,

writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.


So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?


Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.

Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail


They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.

then hope the pan works because if
not then that'll be the whole line blocked with a dead train.


M2s and M8s are married pairs, coupled into a consist. Each of those
pairs has a pantograph, and they all go up. Thus, if one of them does
not work, the other ones will take over.



Charles Ellson[_2_] December 21st 17 11:45 PM

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:33:34 +0000, "
wrote:

On 21.12.17 10:34, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
" wrote:
On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,

writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.


So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?


Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.

Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail


They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.

Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank). Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).

then hope the pan works because if
not then that'll be the whole line blocked with a dead train.


M2s and M8s are married pairs, coupled into a consist. Each of those
pairs has a pantograph, and they all go up. Thus, if one of them does
not work, the other ones will take over.


[email protected] December 22nd 17 12:27 AM

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 
On 21.12.17 23:45, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:33:34 +0000, "
wrote:

On 21.12.17 10:34, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
" wrote:
On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,

writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.

So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?


Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.

Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail


They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.

Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank).


Yes, I have seen that plenty of times, such as at City Thameslink,
Farringdon and Drayton Park.

Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).


Class 373s also changed over on the fly when they ran out of Waterloo, IIRC.

[email protected] December 22nd 17 12:33 AM

Overhead wire in moorgate line stations
 
On 21.12.17 23:45, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 13:33:34 +0000, "
wrote:

On 21.12.17 10:34, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2017 00:24:04 +0000
" wrote:
On 20.12.17 22:44, Clive D.W. Feather wrote:
In article ,

writes
What about in the reverse direction? You want the pan to come up while
in the transition area.

Nope, got to set the mode switch and manually raise them. Pans will also
not go up if any part of the train is on contact with the 3rd rail.

So what do you do at the equivalent of Drayton Park, where the train
comes to a stop on the 3rd rail but needs to start on the overhead
because the third rail ends 5 metres beyond the front of the stopped
train?

I was speaking about M-2s, and not about 313s. I assumed, in the latter
case, that there is a mode switch.

So you mean they won't go up automatically, not won't go up at all?


Exactly. The driver (engineer) switches the power mode, then hits the
"pan up" switch.

Because
if they won't go up at all when on 3rd rail you've got a problem, unless over
there they have to coast off the 3rd rail


They coast off the 3rd rail and then raise when completely under the
wire and moving. It's done on the fly, AIUI, to help the train quickly
assimilate the new power.

Not done here where OHLE and 3rd rail overlap or share a section of
track (Camden Bank). Changing on the move is a minority activity done
by cl.378s (only ?).


Changing over at V-Zero on an M-2 will mean a rough start, and is thus
ill-advised.

Are the M-2s still running, by the way? I know that the New Haven Line
EMUs are now mainly M-8, though I was under the impression that
Metro-North were keeping a few around for peak services.


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