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#11
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London's Elizabeth Line's disjointed introduction
On 2017\12\14 15:29, Recliner wrote:
Apparently, the Victoria line was subsequently criticised for inadequate capacity in the stations, so the JLE was designed to have large, high capacity stations, even though this meant some platforms were well separated from others in the station. Some were OK (Canada Water, Canning Town, Stratford, Westminster, West Ham), others less so (Waterloo, London Bridge, Canary Wharf). What's wrong with Canary Wharf JLE station? It's usually considered the line's architectural highlight? |
#12
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London's Elizabeth Line's disjointed introduction
On 2017\12\14 11:21, e27002 aurora wrote:
Strangely LT/LRT/TfL have regressed. When they built the Victoria Line back in the 1960s they made interchange so easy. Amid Beeching, and the general decline during that period, the Victoria Line shines as a real achievement. It's not so strange. Deep piled buildings were rare when the Victoria Line was built, and the restriction against tunnelling beneath buildings which existed when the earlier lines were built had been repealed, so the Victoria Line planners had freedom like no-one before or since. |
#13
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London's Elizabeth Line's disjointed introduction
On 2017-12-14, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2017\12\14 15:29, Recliner wrote: Apparently, the Victoria line was subsequently criticised for inadequate capacity in the stations, so the JLE was designed to have large, high capacity stations, even though this meant some platforms were well separated from others in the station. Some were OK (Canada Water, Canning Town, Stratford, Westminster, West Ham), others less so (Waterloo, London Bridge, Canary Wharf). What's wrong with Canary Wharf JLE station? It's usually considered the line's architectural highlight? The escalators down to the platform are exceptionally wide (large dead space between the two in each group) due to the structural supports down the middle of the platform. (I assume structural - if it's architectural 'look and feel' then someone should be shot) This means that although the platform floor area is large, there's surprisingly little space to stand and people getting to the bottom of the escalator can find it hard to move away from the end - to the extent that sometimes they have to hold people back from getting on to the escalator at all. I'm not sure quite what could have been done differently - escalators between the supports rather than beside them - but I've got no idea whether there's space to make this possible. In fact, because of the limited circulating space when it's busy in the evening, the departing trains are rarely 'rammed full' as there's a limited number who manage to get on before the doors close. As I only do one stop when taking the tube from here I'd like to be last on and I don't mind being a bit cramped but that doesn't always work the way I want. |
#14
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London's Elizabeth Line's disjointed introduction
On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:44:33 +0000 (UTC)
Tim Woodall wrote: On 2017-12-14, Basil Jet wrote: On 2017\12\14 15:29, Recliner wrote: Apparently, the Victoria line was subsequently criticised for inadequate capacity in the stations, so the JLE was designed to have large, high capacity stations, even though this meant some platforms were well separated from others in the station. Some were OK (Canada Water, Canning Town, Stratford, Westminster, West Ham), others less so (Waterloo, London Bridge, Canary Wharf). What's wrong with Canary Wharf JLE station? It's usually considered the line's architectural highlight? The escalators down to the platform are exceptionally wide (large dead space between the two in each group) due to the structural supports down the middle of the platform. (I assume structural - if it's architectural 'look and feel' then someone should be shot) This means that although the platform floor area is large, there's surprisingly little space to stand and people getting to the bottom of the escalator can find it hard to move away from the end - to the extent that sometimes they have to hold people back from getting on to the escalator at all. True, I found that when I worked there. It could be chaos in rush hour if a train was delayed. Also there's the plain fact that canary wharf station is a massive waste of space. You don't need ceilings 60 foot high in a tube station, they could have put 3 or 4 floors in to use for other things that would be a benefit to the area and bring in revenue for LU. As it is its just cathdral sized dead space that benefits no one other than the architects to say "Look what we did!". |
#15
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London's Elizabeth Line's disjointed introduction
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#16
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London's Elizabeth Line's disjointed introduction
On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 05:49:36 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote: On 2017\12\14 11:21, e27002 aurora wrote: Strangely LT/LRT/TfL have regressed. When they built the Victoria Line back in the 1960s they made interchange so easy. Amid Beeching, and the general decline during that period, the Victoria Line shines as a real achievement. It's not so strange. Deep piled buildings were rare when the Victoria Line was built, and the restriction against tunnelling beneath buildings which existed when the earlier lines were built had been repealed, IMU nothing was repealed; the shallower lines in the past involved a far greater risk of infringing on deep foundations/basements (hence lines following roads) and potential claims for subsidence and similar. The land occupied by the line (at the relevant levels below ground) could/can be obtained either by negotiated purchase or by the associated legislation transferring ownership compulsorily. so the Victoria Line planners had freedom like no-one before or since. |
#17
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London's Elizabeth Line's disjointed introduction
On 15.12.17 8:44, Tim Woodall wrote:
On 2017-12-14, Basil Jet wrote: On 2017\12\14 15:29, Recliner wrote: Apparently, the Victoria line was subsequently criticised for inadequate capacity in the stations, so the JLE was designed to have large, high capacity stations, even though this meant some platforms were well separated from others in the station. Some were OK (Canada Water, Canning Town, Stratford, Westminster, West Ham), others less so (Waterloo, London Bridge, Canary Wharf). What's wrong with Canary Wharf JLE station? It's usually considered the line's architectural highlight? The escalators down to the platform are exceptionally wide (large dead space between the two in each group) due to the structural supports down the middle of the platform. (I assume structural - if it's architectural 'look and feel' then someone should be shot) Can we expect Crossrail's escalators to set any sort of records, such as the longest or shortest in Western Europe? |
#18
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London's Elizabeth Line's disjointed introduction
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#19
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London's Elizabeth Line's disjointed introduction
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 00:21:32 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: wrote: On 15.12.17 8:44, Tim Woodall wrote: On 2017-12-14, Basil Jet wrote: On 2017\12\14 15:29, Recliner wrote: Apparently, the Victoria line was subsequently criticised for inadequate capacity in the stations, so the JLE was designed to have large, high capacity stations, even though this meant some platforms were well separated from others in the station. Some were OK (Canada Water, Canning Town, Stratford, Westminster, West Ham), others less so (Waterloo, London Bridge, Canary Wharf). What's wrong with Canary Wharf JLE station? It's usually considered the line's architectural highlight? The escalators down to the platform are exceptionally wide (large dead space between the two in each group) due to the structural supports down the middle of the platform. (I assume structural - if it's architectural 'look and feel' then someone should be shot) Can we expect Crossrail's escalators to set any sort of records, such as the longest or shortest in Western Europe? I doubt it, but some Crossrail stations will have a lot of them. Judging by the Jubilee Line and elsewhere with multiple flights at deeper stations, they would seem to have a practical limit on the amount of lift before inviting trouble. The more steps you have then the more metalwork you have in motion able to suffer faults so splitting in two or three and having parallel flights reduces the chance of losing everything in one direction. |
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