Paul Corfield Wrote in message:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 14:57:38 UTC, Robin9 wrote:

Two points:

TfL's operations also extend to Epping which is way outside
the Greater London Area. Does the 60+ pass extend to Epping?
My Freedom Pass does. It also allows me to go to Cheshunt as
long as I use TfL Rail.

TfL's empire building refers primarily to the ambition to take
control of suburban services in South London, even though
that would inevitably have a huge impact on services from
further afield. It also takes in their determination to have a
major say in the allocation of train paths between Paddington
and Reading. I haven't bothered to keep up, but several months
ago I did come across some blogs where Berkshire commuters
were indignant about TfL's territorial ambitions.

Although instinctively reluctant to be generous to TfL, I do assume
they were not party to Mr. Khan's ludicrous suggestion some time
ago that he should take over the Southern services as he had
some magical mediating skills which could resolve the dispute
over guards.
--
Robin9

As I made clear there are is some validity that stretches beyond the GL boundary for longstanding historical reasons. Freedom Passes have been valid to Dartford for a very long time and long before PAYG was extended there and without TfL having any say in the train service that reaches Dartford.

Places like the Watford line have long had LT / LU / TfL involvement by virtue of former through working of services. Those arrangements have been refined where TfL have subsequently been granted specification / procurement rights for some of the rail services. I assume TfL and London Councils have reached agreement that the current F Pass can stretch to these cross boundary points as usual volumes are very low and revenue foregone is similarly low and not material to the overall funding settlement. With Crossrail to the west we face a rather different situation as the fare revenue foregone could be high if even moderate numbers were to use a "free" pass given the much higher fares to places like Twyford and Reading.

I am afraid I am going to be my usual picky self and say it is not TfL that have the "empire building ambitions". It is Mayors from the two main parties that have held such ambitions because the Mayoralty has been granted a wider area of influence over rail services. They do this for the obvious reasons of power and influence plus a belief they can secure better services. The revenue would also be a nice add on to TfL's coffers. TfL only ever does what the Mayor requires which is why we have monstrous NB4L buses

I know you hate them, but I'm genuinely baffled why. I suspect
that the man who introduced them plays an undue influence.

I was on the 38 yesterday, and thought it was genuinely excellent.
As a tall person I find the upper deck much better than
'traditional' London double deckers (insomuch as I don't whack my
head on the roof trying to find a seat), and the rear stairs &
door are much more convenient than "fighting with passengers on
the way up when you want to get off" that is normal in a regular
London double decker.

Oh, and the climate was fine.

What is your problem with them? On the two days a year that
London experiences warm weather I never found the existing bus
stock particularly wonderful, so I'm not buying "they're
sometimes warm"...


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 12:42:12 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2017\12\28 12:30, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:51:04 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2017\12\20 09:46, tolly57 wrote:
Basil Jet Wrote in message:
On 2017\12\19 15:18, tim... wrote:


"Basil Jet" wrote in message
news
"TfL announced earlier this month that it was taking over the running
of 11 stations between Acton Main Line and Taplow from December 10."
"The Elizabeth line is going to transform travel across the capital
and it?s only right that every station will have step-free access."

Are Londoners paying for improvements to Taplow and Burnham?

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/...nwell-14052332


https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/tfl-managed-stations

does that mean that freedom pass holders will get free travel all the
way to Taplow?

Does it mean ghost stations like Iver will be permanently staffed?



Would be interesting to know where the boundary will be at the
western end of the Elizabeth line?

Boundary of TfL ownership? I presume Taplow will be it.

So Taplow is within the GLA's bailiwick, bur Watford is not!


No, the services operated by TfL are. The GLA has no direct ownership
or responsibility of the infrastructure.

Watford High Street station is.

... in Hertfordshire as is any part of the DC/WCML north of the county
boundary between Hatch End and Carpenders Park.
There is nothing new about local government bodies (in this case TfL)
having responsibilities outwith their boundaries, the main prior
railway example being the Metropolitan Line past the boundary north of
Northwood. Long-standing non-railway examples include the City of
London with parks and housing outwith the capital or in pre-NHS days
many county hospitals located in neighbouring counties.

In article , (Graeme
Wall) wrote:

On 28/12/2017 14:27, tim... wrote:


"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
news
On 28/12/2017 12:30, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:51:04 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2017\12\20 09:46, tolly57 wrote:
Basil Jet Wrote in message:
On 2017\12\19 15:18, tim... wrote:


"Basil Jet" wrote in message
news
"TfL announced earlier this month that it was taking over the
running of 11 stations between Acton Main Line and Taplow from
December 10."
"The Elizabeth line is going to transform travel across the
capital and it?s only right that every station will have
step-free access."

Are Londoners paying for improvements to Taplow and Burnham?


http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/...ail-elizabeth-
line-hanwell-14052332


https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/tfl-managed-stations

does that mean that freedom pass holders will get free travel all
the way to Taplow?

Does it mean ghost stations like Iver will be permanently staffed?

Would be interesting to know where the boundary will be at the
** western end of the Elizabeth line?

Boundary of TfL ownership? I presume Taplow will be it.

So Taplow is within the GLA's bailiwick, bur Watford is not!

https://mapit.mysociety.org/area/2247.html

which proves what?

That neither are actually in the GLA's bailiwick.

To be precise, that West Drayton is the last GW station within Greater
London and Iver the first station outside.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
news
On 28/12/2017 14:27, tim... wrote:


"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
news
On 28/12/2017 12:30, e27002 aurora wrote:
On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 11:51:04 +0000, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2017\12\20 09:46, tolly57 wrote:
Basil Jet Wrote in message:
On 2017\12\19 15:18, tim... wrote:


"Basil Jet" wrote in message
news
"TfL announced earlier this month that it was taking over the
running
of 11 stations between Acton Main Line and Taplow from December
10."
"The Elizabeth line is going to transform travel across the
capital
and it?s only right that every station will have step-free
access."

Are Londoners paying for improvements to Taplow and Burnham?

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/...nwell-14052332


https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/tfl-managed-stations

does that mean that freedom pass holders will get free travel all
the
way to Taplow?

Does it mean ghost stations like Iver will be permanently staffed?



Would be interesting to know where the boundary will be at the
western end of the Elizabeth line?

Boundary of TfL ownership? I presume Taplow will be it.

So Taplow is within the GLA's bailiwick, bur Watford is not!


https://mapit.mysociety.org/area/2247.html

which proves what?


That neither are actually in the GLA's bailiwick.

the land around may not be

but according to reports, the railway station operation is

Surely that's the point of discussion in a transport group

tim

On Thursday, 28 December 2017 20:02:45 UTC, Clank wrote:

I know you hate them, but I'm genuinely baffled why. I suspect
that the man who introduced them plays an undue influence.

I was on the 38 yesterday, and thought it was genuinely excellent.
As a tall person I find the upper deck much better than
'traditional' London double deckers (insomuch as I don't whack my
head on the roof trying to find a seat), and the rear stairs &
door are much more convenient than "fighting with passengers on
the way up when you want to get off" that is normal in a regular
London double decker.

Oh, and the climate was fine.

What is your problem with them? On the two days a year that
London experiences warm weather I never found the existing bus
stock particularly wonderful, so I'm not buying "they're
sometimes warm"...

The simple answer is that they make me ill. Don't know why specifically but I have ended up feeling exhausted and having a thumping headache when using them in the early days. I am not prone to headaches so if I get one it's an unusual event. The weather was not exceptional on any day in question. No other bus in the *world* (and I've travelled on plenty) has the same effect. Heck I even survived crossing the Channel twice in one day in very stormy conditions without being seasick and I loathe ferry travel. To my mind that pretty much proves I am not prone to travel sickness so why the NB4L affects me physically I don't know but it does.

The fact that so much money was splashed on something that is a reflection of Boris's monstrous ego certainly doesn't help my opinion of them but it is not the main reason why I refuse to travel on NB4Ls. Why would I use a bus that makes me ill? Simple answer - I don't and it's one reason why my bus use and visits to Central London have declined markedly. I await the day when they start being withdrawn and are replaced with something decent. I know that's at least a decade away and that's fine. I know people like them and others hate them - that's fine too.

--
Paul C
via Google

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 20:02:45 UTC, Clank wrote:

I know you hate them, but I'm genuinely baffled why. I suspect
that the man who introduced them plays an undue influence.

I was on the 38 yesterday, and thought it was genuinely excellent.
As a tall person I find the upper deck much better than
'traditional' London double deckers (insomuch as I don't whack my
head on the roof trying to find a seat), and the rear stairs &
door are much more convenient than "fighting with passengers on
the way up when you want to get off" that is normal in a regular
London double decker.

Oh, and the climate was fine.

What is your problem with them? On the two days a year that
London experiences warm weather I never found the existing bus
stock particularly wonderful, so I'm not buying "they're
sometimes warm"...

The simple answer is that they make me ill. Don't know why specifically
but I have ended up feeling exhausted and having a thumping headache when
using them in the early days. I am not prone to headaches so if I get one
it's an unusual event. The weather was not exceptional on any day in
question. No other bus in the *world* (and I've travelled on plenty) has
the same effect. Heck I even survived crossing the Channel twice in one
day in very stormy conditions without being seasick and I loathe ferry
travel. To my mind that pretty much proves I am not prone to travel
sickness so why the NB4L affects me physically I don't know but it does.

The fact that so much money was splashed on something that is a
reflection of Boris's monstrous ego certainly doesn't help my opinion of
them but it is not the main reason why I refuse to travel on NB4Ls. Why
would I use a bus that makes me ill? Simple answer - I don't and it's
one reason why my bus use and visits to Central London have declined
markedly. I await the day when they start being withdrawn and are
replaced with something decent. I know that's at least a decade away and
that's fine. I know people like them and others hate them - that's fine too.

Paul,

I'm sure you'll be thrilled at this bit of news:

"William Wright, of Ballymena-based Wrightbus - the company behind the new
London Routemaster double-decker - is knighted for services to the economy
and bus industry."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42504660

On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 07:58:32 -0800 (PST)
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thursday, 28 December 2017 20:02:45 UTC, Clank wrote:
What is your problem with them? On the two days a year that
London experiences warm weather I never found the existing bus
stock particularly wonderful, so I'm not buying "they're
sometimes warm"...

The simple answer is that they make me ill. Don't know why specifically but=
I have ended up feeling exhausted and having a thumping headache when usin=

The air con always was flakey. Perhaps its something to do with that?

On 29/12/2017 15:58, Paul Corfield wrote:
snip

The simple answer is that they make me ill. Don't know why specifically but I have ended up feeling exhausted and having a thumping headache when using them in the early days. I am not prone to headaches so if I get one it's an unusual event. The weather was not exceptional on any day in question. No other bus in the *world* (and I've travelled on plenty) has the same effect. Heck I even survived crossing the Channel twice in one day in very stormy conditions without being seasick and I loathe ferry travel. To my mind that pretty much proves I am not prone to travel sickness so why the NB4L affects me physically I don't know but it does.

The fact that so much money was splashed on something that is a reflection of Boris's monstrous ego certainly doesn't help my opinion of them but it is not the main reason why I refuse to travel on NB4Ls. Why would I use a bus that makes me ill? Simple answer - I don't and it's one reason why my bus use and visits to Central London have declined markedly. I await the day when they start being withdrawn and are replaced with something decent. I know that's at least a decade away and that's fine. I know people like them and others hate them - that's fine too.


Is it possible you are allergic to something used in the construction of
the buses or given off by it (possibly something not even specified by
Boris such as the paint)? And that that something might now have
dissipated? One way way to test this would be for you to travel on old
NB4Ls a few times - although it would not be possible to eliminate the
effects of your views on the bus without making it impossible for you to
tell when you were on one and when on another bus. Would blindfold, ear
protectors and thick mitts suffice?

If you would then need a travelling companion we may struggle to set up
a double-blind experiment, but let's not make the best the enemy of the
good

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Friday, 29 December 2017 22:49:57 UTC, Recliner wrote:

I'm sure you'll be thrilled at this bit of news:

"William Wright, of Ballymena-based Wrightbus - the company behind the new
London Routemaster double-decker - is knighted for services to the economy
and bus industry."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42504660

Not terribly bothered to be honest. Wrightbus have made a lot of very decent vehicles over the years and have developed a decent business. They have had an awful lot of state support too but that's not exactly unusual in NI.

If Wrightbus hadn't made the NB4L someone else would. It was a political construct not a bus industry initiative.

--
Paul C
via Google

On Saturday, 30 December 2017 11:00:14 UTC, Robin wrote:

Is it possible you are allergic to something used in the construction of
the buses or given off by it (possibly something not even specified by
Boris such as the paint)? And that that something might now have
dissipated? One way way to test this would be for you to travel on old
NB4Ls a few times - although it would not be possible to eliminate the
effects of your views on the bus without making it impossible for you to
tell when you were on one and when on another bus. Would blindfold, ear
protectors and thick mitts suffice?

If you would then need a travelling companion we may struggle to set up
a double-blind experiment, but let's not make the best the enemy of the
good

I don't know about allergies. I'm not knowingly allergic to anything but you may be correct. I appreciate you're enjoying the prospect of me suffering additional anguish from a force fed NB4L ride complete with ridiculous "disguise" but I doubt I'm that much of a sucker for punishment. ;-)

--
Paul C
via Google