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Old June 27th 18, 07:51 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default First LO Aventra on display

The first class 710 has been shown to the press at Willesden depot. The
delayed entry into service on the GOBLIN will be in November:

http://www.metro-report.com/news/news-by-region/europe/single-view/view/new-generation-london-overground-train-unveiled.html



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Old June 27th 18, 09:58 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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On 2018\06\27 08:51, Recliner wrote:

http://www.metro-report.com/news/news-by-region/europe/single-view/view/new-generation-london-overground-train-unveiled.html


"In the longer term three additional trains would be required on the
Gospel Oak – Barking Line once the one-station extension to Barking
Riverside opens."

Three! Presumably the frequency on the whole line will be increased at
the same time, it can't be three extra trains for a two mile extension.

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Old June 27th 18, 10:37 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2018 10:58:24 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote:

On 2018\06\27 08:51, Recliner wrote:

http://www.metro-report.com/news/news-by-region/europe/single-view/view/new-generation-london-overground-train-unveiled.html


"In the longer term three additional trains would be required on the
Gospel Oak Barking Line once the one-station extension to Barking
Riverside opens."

Three! Presumably the frequency on the whole line will be increased at
the same time, it can't be three extra trains for a two mile extension.


Yes, I think so.
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Old June 28th 18, 08:32 AM
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At present, there is no real need for an increase in frequency. The need is for more seats and more room to stand when all seats are taken. The EMUs will certainly provide far more standing room.

A questionable decision was taken to extend platforms to allow 4-car EMUs but not more. As several of the stations still have "un-adopted" platform surfaces, it might have been a sensible long-term strategy to have refurbished the entire platforms at those stations in readiness for 5 or even 6-car trains. If and when patronage rises to absorb all the new capacity, longer trains would be better than more trains on this busy stretch of railway.
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Old July 3rd 18, 11:18 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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On Wednesday, 27 June 2018 08:51:24 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
The first class 710 has been shown to the press at Willesden depot. The
delayed entry into service on the GOBLIN will be in November:

http://www.metro-report.com/news/news-by-region/europe/single-view/view/new-generation-london-overground-train-unveiled.html


Yep shown to the press and immediately dragged back to Derby!

A class 172 has been snatched back by the leasing company which peaks all the peak extras on the GOBLIN ceased on Monday. This is despite promises from TfL that the peak extra trains would run until electric trains were in service. I can only assume that rush hour travel has now become beyond intolerable on the GOBLIN.

If Bombardier don't get type approval for the 710s quickly then the GOBLIN will end up with no trains at all as all of the 172s transfer to West Midlands Trains in the Autumn (Nov) to allow an enhanced timetable from Dec 2018.. They have 4 months to get trains approved and route cleared, fault free mileage accumulated, delivered, commissioned for passenger use, drivers trained and into service. I'd say that is now beginning to look very difficult indeed.

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Old July 3rd 18, 11:54 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 04:18:58 -0700 (PDT)
Paul Corfield wrote:
If Bombardier don't get type approval for the 710s quickly then the GOBLIN =
will end up with no trains at all as all of the 172s transfer to West Midla=
nds Trains in the Autumn (Nov) to allow an enhanced timetable from Dec 2018=
.. They have 4 months to get trains approved and route cleared, fault free m=
ileage accumulated, delivered, commissioned for passenger use, drivers trai=
ned and into service. I'd say that is now beginning to look very difficult=
indeed.


Given this electrification had been on the cards for a long time, why didn't
TfL just order a few more 378s back in the day?

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Old July 3rd 18, 01:35 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default First LO Aventra on display

On Tuesday, 3 July 2018 12:54:26 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 04:18:58 -0700 (PDT)
Paul Corfield wrote:
If Bombardier don't get type approval for the 710s quickly then the GOBLIN =
will end up with no trains at all as all of the 172s transfer to West Midla=
nds Trains in the Autumn (Nov) to allow an enhanced timetable from Dec 2018=
.. They have 4 months to get trains approved and route cleared, fault free m=
ileage accumulated, delivered, commissioned for passenger use, drivers trai=
ned and into service. I'd say that is now beginning to look very difficult=
indeed.


Given this electrification had been on the cards for a long time, why didn't
TfL just order a few more 378s back in the day?


I think Bombardier had withdrawn the Electrostar range of EMUs so didn't offer them. The 379 / 387s for Gtr Anglia / C2C / GWR were the last examples of that family. The Aventra is the new modular design. The 345s for Crossrail use an adapted Train Management System and software from the Electrostar which is how they've got into service. The 710's TMS is brand new and it is believed the software development has been very problematic indeed. I've seen no more info than that - no idea if Bombardier have fixed the issues or whether it is far from resolution.

The other problem is that the TfL priority is getting the 345s to work properly because Crossrail is the priority. Multiple sets are undergoing signalling and software testing at Asfordby test track. This has caused a shortage of testing capacity in the UK which is why one class 710 was sent by road to France for testing. It will also be placing a further strain on Bombardier's software resources if class 345s need revised software to work with the multiple signal systems that apply on Crossrail.

Something has to give very soon because you can't keep prioritising Crossrail if it means a newly electrified line can't use electric trains *and* it may also lose its existing diesel trains. That is the sort of farce that is almost up there with the utter, utter shambles that is Thameslink / Great Northern.

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Old July 3rd 18, 02:29 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default First LO Aventra on display

On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 06:35:17 -0700 (PDT)
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 July 2018 12:54:26 UTC+1, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 04:18:58 -0700 (PDT)
Paul Corfield wrote:
If Bombardier don't get type approval for the 710s quickly then the GOBL=

IN =3D
will end up with no trains at all as all of the 172s transfer to West Mi=

dla=3D
nds Trains in the Autumn (Nov) to allow an enhanced timetable from Dec 2=

018=3D
.. They have 4 months to get trains approved and route cleared, fault fr=

ee m=3D
ileage accumulated, delivered, commissioned for passenger use, drivers t=

rai=3D
ned and into service. I'd say that is now beginning to look very diffic=

ult=3D
indeed.

=20
Given this electrification had been on the cards for a long time, why did=

n't
TfL just order a few more 378s back in the day?


I think Bombardier had withdrawn the Electrostar range of EMUs so didn't of=
fer them. The 379 / 387s for Gtr Anglia / C2C / GWR were the last examples =


Sure, but I was thinking when they ordered the 378s for the overground why
didn't they just add 4 or 5 on top for the goblin?

of that family. The Aventra is the new modular design. The 345s for Crossra=
il use an adapted Train Management System and software from the Electrostar=
which is how they've got into service. The 710's TMS is brand new and it i=
s believed the software development has been very problematic indeed. I've =
seen no more info than that - no idea if Bombardier have fixed the issues o=
r whether it is far from resolution.


You have to wonder why they didn't just make a joint order with thameslink for
some 700s.

As an aside, anyone know why some of these new stocks are numbered in the 7xx
range instead of 3xx?

Something has to give very soon because you can't keep prioritising Crossra=
il if it means a newly electrified line can't use electric trains *and* it =
may also lose its existing diesel trains. That is the sort of farce that is=
almost up there with the utter, utter shambles that is Thameslink / Great =
Northern.


Can't they find some spare 378s and run them on the goblin or is there some
reason they're not suitable?

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Old July 4th 18, 09:22 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default First LO Aventra on display

On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 10:08:52 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2018\07\03 15:29, wrote:

Can't they find some spare 378s and run them on the goblin or is there some
reason they're not suitable?


Aren't they all 5-car now?


No idea. Is the goblin 3 or 4 car only then?



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