In message , John Ray
writes
Ian Jelf wrote:

By the way, anecdotal evidence suggested that people in wheelchairs
travel free on TfL buses. But none of the drivers (nor one inspector)
were absolutely sure and I couldn't find it written down anywhere. One
driver even said he thought that one helper was carried free as well.
Ideas anyone?

"Eligible disabled" people qualify for a Freedom Pass if they live in
London. These passes are paid for by the London boroughs and give the
holders free travel on most public transport services in London.

Yes, I knew about Freedom passes but I could have *sworn* that I'd seen
written down somewhere (I thought it was in the 2004 edition of "Fares &
Tickets" but it isn't) a blanket "free travel" note for those in
wheelchairs. Each of the drivers (and the inspector) to whom we spoke
thought the same and yet I can find no reference on the TfL site.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In article , Paul Corfield
writes
On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:17:38 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3595351.stm

London Underground (LU) has been warned that it could be sued by disabled
people if it does not improve access for them by October.
By then the part of the Disability Discrimination Act which governs access
to transport will come into force.

All jolly interesting but someone should check the article and look at
the grounds for being able to sue. If the organisation has plans in
place - and LUL does and has had a policy in place for years - then they
cannot be successfully sued. While I accept such access is important the
legislators did recognise that none of these improvements can be
delivered overnight or at the cost of other vital expenditure - like
replacing worn out track, trains and signals.

The improvements to the bus network that have been funded by TfL provide
good access to those who are mobility impaired and is an adequate
alternative until such time as LUL is properly funded to allow for the
huge works that are needed to rectify the problems inherent in a network
as old as the Underground.

And before anyone jumps down my throat these remarks are mine and not
those of LUL.

I really think people have lost the plot on this one. I'm all for full
disabled access to everything including theatres, the tube, cinemas etc
but the LU is over 100 years old. It was never designed for disabled
passengers. OK, so all the work is done to get wheelchairs down to the
platforms, how do they get across the gap on curved platforms to the
carriage?

LU is working to improve things but it is under funded, dogged by poor
management, heavy legislation and is creaking at the seams from years of
neglect.

And the disabled lobby want it fixed by October? It would take that long
to work out some potential access routes at the stations, let alone
tender the work etc.
--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.

OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with
disabled access.

Wheelchair users and free travel - As far as I am aware ALL passengers must
have a ticket or other ''authority to travel''. A person with limited
mobility would automatically qualify for a Disabled designated Freedom Pass
allowing travel on all TfL facilities at any time (no time restrictions).

However, as there is no universal agreement between boroughs, counties or
the state about discounted travel, a person from outside London wheelchair
bound or even blind does not qualify for free or discounted travel on TfL
services (unless they hold a Disabled railcard that gives travelcards Zone
1-6D for around £4.50).

In addition there is no concession to helpers or carers and they must pay
the full fare.

But of course what happens in practice is often very different and
''authority to travel'' is obtained at the barrier at no cost - but not
always and nor should staff be put under pressure to do so.
"Ian Jelf" wrote in message
...
In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes
In article ,
(Farlie A) wrote:

Additonaly as I understand it correctly the former lift shafts at
some stations aren't actually street-platform level in any event.

Most if not all of the original lifts, I thought.

Of course if the tube had been properly funded as Metro's in other
countries are then this modernisation work could have been carried out
ages ago. But then this is Britian with a Tresuary that suffers from
acountantitis.

How many other metro systems have full wheelchair access then?
Tyne & Wear Metro and the entire Melbourne Metropolitan railway network
are two.

London will take a *very* Long time to achieve this, though. That
said, it's good to see so many wheelchair accessible buses (even if the
ambulant disabled, if I can use that term) tend to prefer something with
more stanchions.

Incidentally, I was with a wheelchair bound friend in London last week.
The low floor buses were a *real* boon BUT two out of the three we used
had faults which prevented us from using them. The first could have
the centre doors open *or* lower the ramp but not have both at the same
time. The third one (in Whitehall!), lowered the ramp then it became
stuck on the kerb and everyone had to transfer to the (bendi) behind.
When the problem was eventually solve, though, we had a very private
journey to Marylebone in the company of the driver. All the drivers,
incidentally were *very* much amenable but if breakdowns are this common
(are they?) then it compromises the use of the system.

By the way, anecdotal evidence suggested that people in wheelchairs
travel free on TfL buses. But none of the drivers (nor one inspector)
were absolutely sure and I couldn't find it written down anywhere. One
driver even said he thought that one helper was carried free as well.
Ideas anyone?
--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

David Hansen wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 07:17:38 +0100 someone who may be "John Rowland"
wrote this:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3595351.stm

London Underground (LU) has been warned that it could be sued by disabled
people if it does not improve access for them by October.
By then the part of the Disability Discrimination Act which governs access
to transport will come into force.

A lawyer's money making scheme. The Act requires modifications that
are reasonable, which is right. What is wrong is paying lawyers to
argue over what is reasonable.

I'm afraid I would strongly disagree. While in principle it should
seem easy to determine what constitutes "reasonable" it isn't always
clear cut. And it can have significant benefits for the disabled
community. For example, the charity I work for took a case against
GNER on behalf of a disabled client which resulted in them changing
their disabled passenger policy. I rather doubt that would have
happened if one of my fellow lawyers had not been involved.

jb

In article HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win,
(SJCWHUK) wrote:

OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with
disabled access.

When was the system built?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"SJCWHUK" typed


OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with
disabled access.

Wheelchair users and free travel - As far as I am aware ALL passengers must
have a ticket or other ''authority to travel''.

The under 5s don't need a ticket...

A person with limited
mobility would automatically qualify for a Disabled designated Freedom Pass
allowing travel on all TfL facilities at any time (no time restrictions).

It's not *that* automatic. I'm sure wheelchair users would qualify, but
it's necessary to apply completing the necessary forms.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

In article , Ian Jelf
writes
By the way, anecdotal evidence suggested that people in wheelchairs
travel free on TfL buses. But none of the drivers (nor one inspector)
were absolutely sure and I couldn't find it written down anywhere. One
driver even said he thought that one helper was carried free as well.
Ideas anyone?

The other day I boarded a bus and the leaflet rack behind the driver
held booklets entitled "A staff guide to ticketing on London's buses"
dated January 2004 (on the back it has the code TfL2586.11.03).

Page 23: Disabled Persons' freedom pass [...] Allows free travel on all
bus services within Greater London, and on a number of bus services
beyond Greater London, operated as part of the London bus network; at
all times.

Page 26: *Any* passenger in a wheelchair can travel free, at any time,
on wheelchair accessible buses. On dual-door vehicles, where the
wheelchair ramp is fitted at the middle doors, passengers in wheelchairs
*must* board/alight through the middle doors only. Only one wheelchair
may be carried at a time. [Emphasis in original.]

Page 26: Other concessionary travel arrangements [...] In certain cases
the pass also allows a companion to travel at concessionary rate - this
is also shown clearly on the pass.

====

Two notes on photographs. Firstly, some passes for blind people require
a photocard with no photo, while others require a normal photo.

Secondly, to quote page 20:

Any female passenger wearing a Burqa or Yashmak can hold a valid
Photocard, that shows the face similarly covered, to support a valid Bus
Pass, Travelcard or LT Card.

Under *no* circumstances should a female passenger be asked to uncover
her face or be refused travel when holding a valid ticket supported by
such a Photocard.

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address

"SJCWHUK" wrote in message
news:HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win...
OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with
disabled access.

But is it a tube?

The London Underground is described as a tube because the deep level trains
run through a 12ft od pipe into which the train has been designed to fit
using as much of the space as possible. The Met and the District run in
shallow "cut and cover" (mostly) tunnels with the two roads side by side. I
suspect the Stockholm and others bear more resemblance to the latter that to
the tube railways proper.

The primary concern with allowing wheelchairs onto the Underground,
specifically the tube lines, is getting them out in the event of an
emergency. The interconnecting doors between cars aren't wide enough nor is
the door in the front of the train allowing emergency access to the track
permitting emergency evacuation along the track to the next station.

On the Met and District evacuation can be done by brining another train to a
stop on the adjacent road and creating a bridge between the two for people
to walk across using one door on each train. This is still unsafe for
wheelchair users since there remains the possibility of falling between the
trains onto the track.

In that scenario the wheelchair user presents a real danger to other
passengers as well as to themselves.

Before anyone asks, I have had to use a wheelchair and I still have
difficulty walking, I have also been LT traincrew so can see the problem
from both sides.

"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
"SJCWHUK" wrote in message
news:HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win...

OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the
list of tube networks with disabled access.

But is it a tube?

The London Underground is described as a tube because
the deep level trains run through a 12ft od pipe into which
the train has been designed to fit using as much of the
space as possible. The Met and the District run in shallow
"cut and cover" (mostly) tunnels with the two roads side by
side. I suspect the Stockholm and others bear more
resemblance to the latter that to the tube railways proper.

Some or most of the Stockholm system was created by blasting tunnels through
solid rock, and the running tunnels and platform tunnels have largely been
left as bare rock.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes

In article HAldc.13388$4N3.9601@newsfe1-win,
(SJCWHUK) wrote:

OK for starters you can add Stockholm to the list of tube networks with
disabled access.

When was the system built?

1950 (i.e. long after most of London's tube system).

--
Paul Terry