future of HeX, was Secret map
 

On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:44:02 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
John Levine wrote:
In article ,
Recliner wrote:
I suspect very shortly after crossrail opens at heathrow Hex will be
history.
Maybe even a matter of months.

I think it may survive as a faster, slightly more premium option, with
fares no more than £15. But no way will it survive with £27 buy-on-board
fares. There just won't be enough takers.

There's currently 4 tph on the HeX and 2 tph on the ex-Connect TfL.
Next year there'll be 6 tph on TfL, four to T4 and two to T5.

I think Crossrail is aiming for 8 tph to Heathrow eventually.

Along with the 12 tph on the Picc, that's 22 tph. Are there that many
people who want to take a train into London? I guess we'll see.

The 12 tph Piccadilly line trains are already packed, so there's certainly

Hobsons choice. I can guarantee that once crossrail is up and running and
tourists know about it the picc will become a ghost line. Few people apart
from local residents and maybe heathrow workers are going to use that hopeless
service to slog into london when they can do it in 1/4 the time for the same or
slightly more money (not sure of crossrail costs to heathrow).

There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still generate considerable business.

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 20:44:02 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
John Levine wrote:
In article ,
Recliner wrote:
I suspect very shortly after crossrail opens at heathrow Hex will be
history.
Maybe even a matter of months.

I think it may survive as a faster, slightly more premium option, with
fares no more than £15. But no way will it survive with £27 buy-on-board
fares. There just won't be enough takers.

There's currently 4 tph on the HeX and 2 tph on the ex-Connect TfL.
Next year there'll be 6 tph on TfL, four to T4 and two to T5.

I think Crossrail is aiming for 8 tph to Heathrow eventually.

Along with the 12 tph on the Picc, that's 22 tph. Are there that many
people who want to take a train into London? I guess we'll see.

The 12 tph Piccadilly line trains are already packed, so there's certainly

Hobsons choice. I can guarantee that once crossrail is up and running and
tourists know about it the picc will become a ghost line. Few people apart
from local residents and maybe heathrow workers are going to use that hopeless
service to slog into london when they can do it in 1/4 the time for the same or
slightly more money (not sure of crossrail costs to heathrow).

For many places in central London, the Piccadilly will still be the better
choice. For example, Crossrail has no interchanges with the Piccadilly or
Victoria lines, so it won't necessarily be the best choice for anyone who
wants to get to any of the stations on those lines. Prices will also be
significantly higher than using LU all the way (I've already posted the
fares upthread), though that may not be a factor for many Heathrow
travellers.

So, while Crossrail will undoubtedly reduce the overcrowding on Piccadilly
line trains, they'll still stay quite busy. It's different to HEx, that
only has speed as an advantage over Crossrail; the Piccadilly also wins on
convenience for many destinations. For example, Crossrail is the obvious
choice for getting from Heathrow to Paddington or Liverpool Street, but the
Piccadilly will remain better for Kings Cross or Victoria.

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

Robin9 wrote:

There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the
extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most
of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still
generate considerable business.

Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too: for
many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of
getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences.

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 09:11:54 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Hobsons choice. I can guarantee that once crossrail is up and running and
tourists know about it the picc will become a ghost line. Few people apart
from local residents and maybe heathrow workers are going to use that
hopeless
service to slog into london when they can do it in 1/4 the time for the same
or
slightly more money (not sure of crossrail costs to heathrow).

For many places in central London, the Piccadilly will still be the better
choice. For example, Crossrail has no interchanges with the Piccadilly or
Victoria lines, so it won't necessarily be the best choice for anyone who
wants to get to any of the stations on those lines. Prices will also be
significantly higher than using LU all the way (I've already posted the
fares upthread), though that may not be a factor for many Heathrow
travellers.

So, while Crossrail will undoubtedly reduce the overcrowding on Piccadilly
line trains, they'll still stay quite busy. It's different to HEx, that
only has speed as an advantage over Crossrail; the Piccadilly also wins on
convenience for many destinations. For example, Crossrail is the obvious
choice for getting from Heathrow to Paddington or Liverpool Street, but the
Piccadilly will remain better for Kings Cross or Victoria.

Farrindgon is one stop from KX. By the time you've taken crossrail from
Heathrow, changed at Farringdon and arrive at KX the alternate piccadilly
line train might just have made it to Hammersmith. But more likely will be
stuck at Acton Town with a signal failure.

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 09:11:54 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Hobsons choice. I can guarantee that once crossrail is up and running and
tourists know about it the picc will become a ghost line. Few people apart
from local residents and maybe heathrow workers are going to use that
hopeless
service to slog into london when they can do it in 1/4 the time for the same
or
slightly more money (not sure of crossrail costs to heathrow).

For many places in central London, the Piccadilly will still be the better
choice. For example, Crossrail has no interchanges with the Piccadilly or
Victoria lines, so it won't necessarily be the best choice for anyone who
wants to get to any of the stations on those lines. Prices will also be
significantly higher than using LU all the way (I've already posted the
fares upthread), though that may not be a factor for many Heathrow
travellers.

So, while Crossrail will undoubtedly reduce the overcrowding on Piccadilly
line trains, they'll still stay quite busy. It's different to HEx, that
only has speed as an advantage over Crossrail; the Piccadilly also wins on
convenience for many destinations. For example, Crossrail is the obvious
choice for getting from Heathrow to Paddington or Liverpool Street, but the
Piccadilly will remain better for Kings Cross or Victoria.

Farrindgon is one stop from KX. By the time you've taken crossrail from
Heathrow, changed at Farringdon and arrive at KX the alternate piccadilly
line train might just have made it to Hammersmith. But more likely will be
stuck at Acton Town with a signal failure.

Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and
12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall.

On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins
waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink,
and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is
it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the
fare, to save just eight minutes?

You may think so, but many others will disagree.

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:21:03 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Farrindgon is one stop from KX. By the time you've taken crossrail from
Heathrow, changed at Farringdon and arrive at KX the alternate piccadilly
line train might just have made it to Hammersmith. But more likely will be
stuck at Acton Town with a signal failure.

Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and
12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall.

On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins
waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink,
and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is
it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the
fare, to save just eight minutes?

Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle line, there's
a train every 2 or 3 minutes.

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 10:21:03 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Farrindgon is one stop from KX. By the time you've taken crossrail from
Heathrow, changed at Farringdon and arrive at KX the alternate piccadilly
line train might just have made it to Hammersmith. But more likely will be
stuck at Acton Town with a signal failure.

Heathrow Central to Kings Cross is 55 mins on the Tube, with no changes and
12 tph. Allow 2 mins waiting time, so 57 mins overall.

On Crossrail, it will be 31 mins to Farringdon, 6tph. Allowing 5 mins
waiting time, that's 36 mins. Then allow 10 mins to change to Thameslink,
and say 3 mins journey time to Kings Cross, so it's about 49 mins total. Is
it worth the hassle of changing trains with luggage, and up to triple the
fare, to save just eight minutes?

Why on earth would you get thameslink to KX? Get the H&S/Circle line, there's
a train every 2 or 3 minutes.



The change at Farringdon is likely to be much easier to Thameslink. Using
LU will make the change longer, and the trains are hardly more frequent
than TL is planned to be before Crossrail is running from Heathrow to
Farringdon.

So, under your suggestion, make that 51 minutes via Crossrail: a saving of
just 6 minutes, for triple the fare, much more walking, and an unnecessary
change of train. That's about as good as most of your suggestions.

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Robin9 wrote:

There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the
extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most
of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still
generate considerable business.

Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too:
for
many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of
getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences.

yep me too

Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change
onto the Picc.

What would be the point of staying on the train to Padd to change onto
Lizzy, even if I was on a train that was going to Padd in the first place?

tim

future of HeX, was Secret map
 

On Fri, 31 Aug 2018 13:48:52 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:



"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Robin9 wrote:

There was a busy Piccadilly Line service to Hounslow long before the
extension to Heathrow was built. Obviously the Piccadilly will lose most
of its Heathrow custom but Hounslow East and Boston Manor will still
generate considerable business.

Actually, I think it'll keep quite a lot of its Heathrow business, too:
for
many people (including me), it will remain the most convenient way of
getting to the airport, even after the full Crossrail service commences.

yep me too

Once ensconced in my new abode it will be District to Earls Court, change
onto the Picc.

Why not use the much easier cross-platform change at Barons Court?


What would be the point of staying on the train to Padd to change onto
Lizzy, even if I was on a train that was going to Padd in the first place?

Exactly