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Old January 19th 19, 08:24 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default City plans to trial petrol and diesel ban

Graeme Wall wrote:
Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.


Electric buses are better for hills than diesel ones - they can regenerate
on the way down, instead of using friction braking. Saves energy and
reduces particulate emissions from brake pads.

I've used the BYD P&R buses in Nottingham which are electric - seem nippier
than diesel too. Nice that the Guildford ones are built by Alexander Dennis
in Guildford.

Depending on the street layout, it might be feasible to fit trolley wires to
key thoroughfares (think Oxford Street) and have the buses run on battery on
non-wired parts of the route. That would reduce the size of battery they
have to drag around, and so the weight and cost.

Theo

  #42   Report Post  
Old January 19th 19, 09:17 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default City plans to trial petrol and diesel ban

Theo wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.


Electric buses are better for hills than diesel ones - they can regenerate
on the way down, instead of using friction braking. Saves energy and
reduces particulate emissions from brake pads.


Yes, that's a very good point.


I've used the BYD P&R buses in Nottingham which are electric - seem nippier
than diesel too. Nice that the Guildford ones are built by Alexander Dennis
in Guildford.


The London ones are too. I think Dennis is BYD's local partner.


Depending on the street layout, it might be feasible to fit trolley wires to
key thoroughfares (think Oxford Street) and have the buses run on battery on
non-wired parts of the route. That would reduce the size of battery they
have to drag around, and so the weight and cost.


Yes, good idea.



  #43   Report Post  
Old January 20th 19, 04:26 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default City plans to trial petrol and diesel ban

On 19/01/2019 21:24, Theo wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.


Electric buses are better for hills than diesel ones - they can regenerate
on the way down, instead of using friction braking. Saves energy and
reduces particulate emissions from brake pads.

I've used the BYD P&R buses in Nottingham which are electric - seem nippier
than diesel too. Nice that the Guildford ones are built by Alexander Dennis
in Guildford.

Depending on the street layout, it might be feasible to fit trolley wires to
key thoroughfares (think Oxford Street) and have the buses run on battery on
non-wired parts of the route. That would reduce the size of battery they
have to drag around, and so the weight and cost.


That would make the tourist areas look like crap. It's better and
cheaper to have charging pads in the road at termini and other lengthy
stops. This was, and presumably still is, used on bus route 69 with
charging pads at Canning Town and Walthamstow.

https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2017/3271

--
Basil Jet - Current favourite song...
What by Bruce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtJEAud9vao
  #44   Report Post  
Old January 20th 19, 08:05 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default City plans to trial petrol and diesel ban

On 19/01/2019 22:17, Recliner wrote:
Theo wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.


Electric buses are better for hills than diesel ones - they can regenerate
on the way down, instead of using friction braking. Saves energy and
reduces particulate emissions from brake pads.


Yes, that's a very good point.


I've used the BYD P&R buses in Nottingham which are electric - seem nippier
than diesel too. Nice that the Guildford ones are built by Alexander Dennis
in Guildford.


The London ones are too. I think Dennis is BYD's local partner.


Depending on the street layout, it might be feasible to fit trolley wires to
key thoroughfares (think Oxford Street) and have the buses run on battery on
non-wired parts of the route. That would reduce the size of battery they
have to drag around, and so the weight and cost.


Yes, good idea.




Though you then have the weight and cost of the on-board electrical
euipment to convert the trolley voltage to whatever the batteries supply.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

  #45   Report Post  
Old January 20th 19, 08:28 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default City plans to trial petrol and diesel ban

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 19/01/2019 22:17, Recliner wrote:
Theo wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.

Electric buses are better for hills than diesel ones - they can regenerate
on the way down, instead of using friction braking. Saves energy and
reduces particulate emissions from brake pads.


Yes, that's a very good point.


I've used the BYD P&R buses in Nottingham which are electric - seem nippier
than diesel too. Nice that the Guildford ones are built by Alexander Dennis
in Guildford.


The London ones are too. I think Dennis is BYD's local partner.


Depending on the street layout, it might be feasible to fit trolley wires to
key thoroughfares (think Oxford Street) and have the buses run on battery on
non-wired parts of the route. That would reduce the size of battery they
have to drag around, and so the weight and cost.


Yes, good idea.




Though you then have the weight and cost of the on-board electrical
euipment to convert the trolley voltage to whatever the batteries supply.


Presumably it would simply act as a battery charger, using the same voltage
as the depot charger?



  #46   Report Post  
Old January 20th 19, 09:23 AM posted to uk.transport.london
Bob Bob is offline
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Default City plans to trial petrol and diesel ban

Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 19/01/2019 22:17, Recliner wrote:
Theo wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.

Electric buses are better for hills than diesel ones - they can regenerate
on the way down, instead of using friction braking. Saves energy and
reduces particulate emissions from brake pads.

Yes, that's a very good point.


I've used the BYD P&R buses in Nottingham which are electric - seem nippier
than diesel too. Nice that the Guildford ones are built by Alexander Dennis
in Guildford.

The London ones are too. I think Dennis is BYD's local partner.


Depending on the street layout, it might be feasible to fit trolley wires to
key thoroughfares (think Oxford Street) and have the buses run on battery on
non-wired parts of the route. That would reduce the size of battery they
have to drag around, and so the weight and cost.

Yes, good idea.


Though you then have the weight and cost of the on-board electrical
euipment to convert the trolley voltage to whatever the batteries supply.


Presumably it would simply act as a battery charger, using the same voltage
as the depot charger?


For electric cars, the “fast charger” supplies DC at about 500 V. For a
larger bus sized battery an increase to perhaps 650 V might be sensible.
Guess what trolley buses run on?

Robin

  #47   Report Post  
Old January 20th 19, 09:37 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default City plans to trial petrol and diesel ban

bob wrote:
Recliner wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 19/01/2019 22:17, Recliner wrote:
Theo wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote:
Battery buses here in Guildford seem to cope with the hills with no
problems. They've just been introduced on the park and ride services
which all involve climbing hills many times a day.

Electric buses are better for hills than diesel ones - they can regenerate
on the way down, instead of using friction braking. Saves energy and
reduces particulate emissions from brake pads.

Yes, that's a very good point.


I've used the BYD P&R buses in Nottingham which are electric - seem nippier
than diesel too. Nice that the Guildford ones are built by Alexander Dennis
in Guildford.

The London ones are too. I think Dennis is BYD's local partner.


Depending on the street layout, it might be feasible to fit trolley wires to
key thoroughfares (think Oxford Street) and have the buses run on battery on
non-wired parts of the route. That would reduce the size of battery they
have to drag around, and so the weight and cost.

Yes, good idea.

Though you then have the weight and cost of the on-board electrical
euipment to convert the trolley voltage to whatever the batteries supply.


Presumably it would simply act as a battery charger, using the same voltage
as the depot charger?


For electric cars, the “fast charger” supplies DC at about 500 V. For a
larger bus sized battery an increase to perhaps 650 V might be sensible.
Guess what trolley buses run on?


Exactly

  #48   Report Post  
Old January 20th 19, 11:44 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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First recorded activity at LondonBanter: Feb 2016
Posts: 53
Default City plans to trial petrol and diesel ban

Basil Jet wrote:
That would make the tourist areas look like crap. It's better and
cheaper to have charging pads in the road at termini and other lengthy
stops. This was, and presumably still is, used on bus route 69 with
charging pads at Canning Town and Walthamstow.

https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2017/3271


They seem to manage tram wires in Princes Street. And indeed in many
Continental historic centres. You could of course wire less touristy parts
- most cities have main thoroughfares where buses are concentrated.

The trouble with inductive charging is you can get much less power transfer
than a wired connection, and it's less efficient.

I wonder how much the no. 69 runs on electric, and how much it's a pure
diesel bus?
goes digging
57% in EV mode - not bad:
https://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/pre...ald,%20TfL.pdf
Although 16kW isn't that great for charge power.

Theo
  #49   Report Post  
Old January 21st 19, 07:03 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 1,205
Default City plans to trial petrol and diesel ban

On 20/01/2019 12:44, Theo wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
That would make the tourist areas look like crap. It's better and
cheaper to have charging pads in the road at termini and other lengthy
stops. This was, and presumably still is, used on bus route 69 with
charging pads at Canning Town and Walthamstow.

https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2017/3271


They seem to manage tram wires in Princes Street. And indeed in many
Continental historic centres. You could of course wire less touristy parts
- most cities have main thoroughfares where buses are concentrated.

The trouble with inductive charging is you can get much less power transfer
than a wired connection, and it's less efficient.

I wonder how much the no. 69 runs on electric, and how much it's a pure
diesel bus?
goes digging
57% in EV mode - not bad:
https://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/pre...ald,%20TfL.pdf
Although 16kW isn't that great for charge power.


Okay, well put overhead on the bus terminus then, and make it overhead
rails so it can't get blown down. Pretty much anything is better than
electric wires down every main road in the city.

--
Basil Jet - Current favourite song...
What by Bruce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtJEAud9vao
  #50   Report Post  
Old January 21st 19, 07:39 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 1,390
Default City plans to trial petrol and diesel ban

On 21/01/2019 08:03, Basil Jet wrote:
On 20/01/2019 12:44, Theo wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
That would make the tourist areas look like crap. It's better and
cheaper to have charging pads in the road at termini and other lengthy
stops. This was, and presumably still is, used on bus route 69 with
charging pads at Canning Town and Walthamstow.

https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2017/3271


They seem to manage tram wires in Princes Street.* And indeed in many
Continental historic centres.* You could of course wire less touristy
parts
- most cities have main thoroughfares where buses are concentrated.

The trouble with inductive charging is you can get much less power
transfer
than a wired connection, and it's less efficient.

I wonder how much the no. 69 runs on electric, and how much it's a pure
diesel bus?
goes digging
57% in EV mode - not bad:
https://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/pre...ald,%20TfL.pdf

Although 16kW isn't that great for charge power.


Okay, well put overhead on the bus terminus then, and make it overhead
rails so it can't get blown down. Pretty much anything is better than
electric wires down every main road in the city.


As I say, the electric buses here seem to manage a full day on a fairly
intensive service without needing more than an overnight charge at the
depot.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.



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