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Old April 20th 04, 11:19 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Level Crossings on busy lines

I'm interested in level crossings on busy lines. For example, on the
line between Richmond and Barnes, which carries 17 trains per hour in
the peak*, there are several crossings. One of these is on Vine Road in
Barnes, which also has another a few yards away crossing the Hounslow
Loop. As the latter has at least another 8tph, car drivers on that road
have 25 tph to contend with.

Are there other crossings in London or elsewhere over lines that are as
busy as this?


* 10 up and 7 down trains between 08:00 and 09:00 according to the TfL
Journey Planner.

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Old April 21st 04, 10:40 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Level Crossings on busy lines

In article , Richard J. wrote:
I'm interested in level crossings on busy lines. For example, on the
line between Richmond and Barnes, which carries 17 trains per hour in
the peak*, there are several crossings. One of these is on Vine Road in
Barnes, which also has another a few yards away crossing the Hounslow
Loop. As the latter has at least another 8tph, car drivers on that road
have 25 tph to contend with.


I live in this area and am motorist.. it's usually not too bad, the
trains seem evenly spaced and it's rare that you have to sit waiting at
a crossing for more than one train to go past. The roads in Barnes that
have the crossings aren't main roads either, therefore don't carry much
traffic.

The worst is the crossing on Sheen Lane - a very busy road, and the
queue can back up all the way onto Mortlake High Street during peak
hours.


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| "It's people like you what cause unrest"
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Old April 21st 04, 11:26 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Level Crossings on busy lines


"Richard J." wrote in message
...
I'm interested in level crossings on busy lines.


The gates are up and down like a whore's drawers.

:-)

--
Brian
"Happy St George's Day. It either is, just was, or soon will be."


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Old April 21st 04, 07:27 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Level Crossings on busy lines

In message om,
Grendel writes

In article , Richard J. wrote:


I'm interested in level crossings on busy lines. For example, on the
line between Richmond and Barnes, which carries 17 trains per hour in
the peak*, there are several crossings.


I live in this area and am motorist.. it's usually not too bad, the
trains seem evenly spaced and it's rare that you have to sit waiting at
a crossing for more than one train to go past.


Sorry to disagree, but I live very much "in the area" (three of the
crossings to the east of me, two to the west, all within walking
distance and the line within sight of the house). I find that it is very
rare for only one train to go through before the barriers are lifted.

It is very common to find four trains allowed through before the barrier
is raised (a fast Windsor plus a slow stopper in each direction).

There seems to be some effort to raise the barriers more than four times
an hour during peak periods, but conversely weekends can be seriously
bad with sometimes 5-6 trains allowed through in succession before road
traffic is allowed to move.

The roads in Barnes that have the crossings aren't main roads either,
therefore don't carry much traffic.


But they are all direct turns off the South Circular, so they can get
congested if the A205 is stationary (which it often can be).

The worst is the crossing on Sheen Lane - a very busy road, and the
queue can back up all the way onto Mortlake High Street during peak
hours.


Again, I disagree. Sheen Lane can be busy, but tail-backs on the Manor
Road crossing have often been known to block the A316 Lower Richmond
Road (that's the main way out to the M3 folks) to the North and the A305
Upper Richmond Road to the South.

Having lived here for 30 years, I have to admire the skills and
technology involved when the crossings are working well - its a battle
against the odds and astonishing that accents are not more frequent -
but there are other times when lazy/trainee signalmen are on when the
succession of crossings becomes a serious impediment in the area, not
least to emergency services.

--
Paul Terry
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Old April 21st 04, 11:36 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Level Crossings on busy lines

"Richard J." wrote in message
...

I'm interested in level crossings on busy lines.
One of these is on Vine Road in Barnes, which also
has another a few yards away crossing the Hounslow
Loop. As the latter has at least another 8tph, car
drivers on that road have 25 tph to contend with.


This part of the Hounslow Loop presumably has freight trafic as well, since
there is a curve at Kew Bridge specifically for it.

The only other road which would seem to come close to Vine Lane is Bollo
Lane, which also has two level crossings.

Incidentally, the level crossing at Lincoln Road (Enfield) is closed to cars
at nights and all day Sunday. I think the one in Park Lane near Theobalds
Grove station might be as well.

--
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Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
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That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes




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Old April 22nd 04, 11:29 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Level Crossings on busy lines

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Richard J." wrote in message
...

Incidentally, the level crossing at Lincoln Road (Enfield) is closed to

cars
at nights and all day Sunday. I think the one in Park Lane near Theobalds
Grove station might be as well.


Er, wouldn't there be more rail traffic during the day than at nights and
weekends, and therefore more need to keep the barriers down for longer
during the day? Or is it because there's also more road traffic during the
day as well.

If a brand new road is built these days, what are the guidelines about level
crossing versus bridge? Are there any circumstances where level crossings
would still be installed these days?


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Old April 22nd 04, 03:38 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Level Crossings on busy lines

"Martin Underwood" wrote in message
s.com...
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...

Incidentally, the level crossing at Lincoln Road (Enfield)
is closed to cars at nights and all day Sunday. I think
the one in Park Lane near Theobalds
Grove station might be as well.


Er, wouldn't there be more rail traffic during the day
than at nights and weekends, and therefore more
need to keep the barriers down for longer during the day?
Or is it because there's also more road traffic during the
day as well.


The latter. The crossings are manned, as in there is are actual blokes sat
in portacabins next to the crossings, and when they clock off for the night,
the crossings remain closed until the morning (or the Monday morning).

If a brand new road is built these days, what are the
guidelines about level crossing versus bridge?


This is an issue in the plans for Watford Junction. Level crossings are
considered to be unsafe, and I don't think any more will be installed on
straight roads... but at Watford the planned road is (horizontally) curved,
and a hump-back bridge on a curved road is considered to be even worse than
a level crossing, so a level crossing might be installed there.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes


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Old April 22nd 04, 03:53 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Level Crossings on busy lines

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Martin Underwood" wrote in message
s.com...
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...

If a brand new road is built these days, what are the
guidelines about level crossing versus bridge?


This is an issue in the plans for Watford Junction. Level crossings are
considered to be unsafe, and I don't think any more will be installed on
straight roads... but at Watford the planned road is (horizontally)

curved,
and a hump-back bridge on a curved road is considered to be even worse

than
a level crossing, so a level crossing might be installed there.


In that case, I'm surprised no-one's suggested a hump-back bridge to take
the railway over the road ;-)

I presume that if this is a brand new road (as your phrase "planned road"
implies) there must be other constraints such as existing buildings which
mean that there has to be a bend at all. Whereabouts is it?

If it's a level crossing and it's on the main line (as opposed to the branch
to St Albans) that the delays for road traffic will be horrendous given that
it would probably be a full-barrier crossing linked with the signals, rather
than an AHB activated by the trains which would require less lead time
between the barriers going down and the train arriving and would probably
allow the barriers to be lifted briefly between successive trains.


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Old April 23rd 04, 10:13 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Level Crossings on busy lines


"Martin Underwood" wrote in message
s.com...
"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Richard J." wrote in message
...

Incidentally, the level crossing at Lincoln Road (Enfield) is closed to

cars
at nights and all day Sunday. I think the one in Park Lane near

Theobalds
Grove station might be as well.


Er, wouldn't there be more rail traffic during the day than at nights and
weekends, and therefore more need to keep the barriers down for longer
during the day? Or is it because there's also more road traffic during the
day as well.

If a brand new road is built these days, what are the guidelines about

level
crossing versus bridge? Are there any circumstances where level crossings
would still be installed these days?


The Lincoln Rd crossing being closed at night and weekends has something to
do with it being a former private rd (?) I've seen mention of it on hear
somewhere before (Google will probably be your friend). With the WARM
project there was a roomer that they wanted to replace it with a
electronically gated crossing of some sort, but it was decided to leave it
as it was. People had cited it was un safe - it is only 'un safe' if your a
pedestrian and you don't pay attention when on or about the crossing.

I can only think of 1 accident at that crossing, and if I remember it
correctly that was a mini that smashed through the gates one night when It
was closed. I don't know of any vehicle Vs train incidents there though.

The Park La. crossing is a different matter - Anyone who is local to the
Enfield area or get the local rag from round there will know about a spate
of near misses, and idiotic motorists who insist in trying to jump the
barriers and cross when trains approaching. WAGN or rather 'one' took the
decision to close the crossing off. I'm not sure if that is still the case,
I haven't been out that way for a while now.


[To avoid getting run over, stop look and listen...]


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Old April 23rd 04, 04:16 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Level Crossings on busy lines

In article , Paul Terry
writes
Having lived here for 30 years, I have to admire the skills and
technology involved when the crossings are working well - its a battle
against the odds and astonishing that accents are not more frequent -


I presume these are controlled crossings? If so, why should there be
accidents at all? What sort of accidents?

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