Hi all,

I saw this on the front of a 91 the other day, shortly after it had left its
Crouch End terminus. Since double-decker buses aren't the easiest things to
turn around, except at authorised turnarounds, I am surprised that the blind
didn't specify the point where the bus was turning, and that it did say what
it said. Is it a new policy not to bother putting known emergency
turnarounds on blinds?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"John Rowland" wrote the
following in:

Hi all,

I saw this on the front of a 91 the other day, shortly after it
had left its Crouch End terminus. Since double-decker buses aren't
the easiest things to turn around, except at authorised
turnarounds, I am surprised that the blind didn't specify the
point where the bus was turning, and that it did say what it said.
Is it a new policy not to bother putting known emergency
turnarounds on blinds?

Buses on the 91 were displaying this before when there was some big
disruption going on, I think it was possibly the rugby world cup
celebrations or some sort of protest. It could be that they use it when
they think they'll have to turn buses around but don't know where they
will end up doing it because of being uncertain about what sort of
disruption there will be. That's just a guess though.

--
message by Robin May, but I would say that, wouldn't I?
"GIVE IN! IT'S TIME TO GO!" - The NHS offers a high standard of care.

"You MUST NOT drive dangerously" - the Highway Code
Spelling lesson: then and than are different words.

John Rowland:
I saw this on the front of a 91 the other day, shortly after it had
left its Crouch End terminus. Since double-decker buses aren't the
easiest things to turn around, except at authorised turnarounds, I am
surprised that the blind didn't specify the point where the bus was
turning ...

They aren't? Wouldn't it just be a matter of going "around the block"
via suitable side streets?

Just by the way, practice here in Toronto is like this.

For buses, the normal signs are now digital and show something like this,
often cycling between displays to show the route number, route name, and
endpoint. The split into parts and the exact style varies from one
route to another (for example, not all use the word "route"), and these
examples may not be exact. The slogan is only present sometimes,
usually when I want to know as quickly as possible what bus it is. :-)

ROUTE 61 - AVENUE ROAD NORTH - TO ROE - GO LEAFS GO

Commonly used turnback points or extended versions of the route are
treated the same as branches and have their own indication:

ROUTE 61B - 61B AVENUE ROAD N - TO OTTER - GO LEAFS GO

Unusual turnbacks get an S suffix and "Short Turn":

ROUTE 61S - AVENUE ROAD N - SHORT TURN

For streetcars (trams), the normal signs are on blinds and show the
route number and endpoint, omitting the route name (here, Queen):

501 NEVILLE PARK

Commonly used turnback points have their own indication:

501 CHURCH

But *in addition* a fixed sign reading SHORT TURN is raised. If this
sign was used alone with the standard destination blind reading, it
would imply an unusual turnback point (or a driver too lazy to change
the main sign correctly).
--
Mark Brader | "...Backwards Compatibility, which, if you've made as
| many mistakes as Intel and Microsoft have in the past,
Toronto | can be very Backwards indeed." -- Steve Summit

My text in this article is in the public domain.

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
...
John Rowland:

Since double-decker buses aren't the easiest things
to turn around, except at authorised turnarounds

They aren't? Wouldn't it just be a matter of going
"around the block" via suitable side streets?

Yes, but most side streets and corners here aren't suitable. Whenever a bus
route is introduced on a previously unserved road or around a previously
unskirted corner, an "infrastructure test" is performed, and it would be a
foolish bus driver who took his bus down a random street or around a random
corner. (That wasn't a dig at a certain bus driver who posts on this
group... alright, maybe it was.)

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

John Rowland:
Since double-decker buses aren't the easiest things
to turn around, except at authorised turnarounds

Mark Brader:
They aren't? Wouldn't it just be a matter of going
"around the block" via suitable side streets?

John Rowland:
Yes, but most side streets and corners here aren't suitable. ...

In what way?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "When I wanted to be a sigquote, that wasn't
| the one I was thinking of." --Clive Feather

"Mark Brader" wrote in message ...
John Rowland:
Since double-decker buses aren't the easiest things
to turn around, except at authorised turnarounds

Mark Brader:
They aren't? Wouldn't it just be a matter of going
"around the block" via suitable side streets?

John Rowland:
Yes, but most side streets and corners here aren't suitable. ...

In what way?
--

Probably too narrow, like most streets in London.

Not that it's always enough to stop TfL from routing buses down them...

Mark Brader wrote:
John Rowland:
Since double-decker buses aren't the easiest things
to turn around, except at authorised turnarounds

Mark Brader:
They aren't? Wouldn't it just be a matter of going
"around the block" via suitable side streets?

John Rowland:
Yes, but most side streets and corners here aren't suitable. ...

In what way?

The roads are too narrow and / or crowded with parked cars., There might
also be overhanging trees.

John Rowland wrote:

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
...
John Rowland:

Since double-decker buses aren't the easiest things
to turn around, except at authorised turnarounds

They aren't? Wouldn't it just be a matter of going
"around the block" via suitable side streets?

Yes, but most side streets and corners here aren't suitable. Whenever a bus
route is introduced on a previously unserved road or around a previously
unskirted corner, an "infrastructure test" is performed, and it would be a
foolish bus driver who took his bus down a random street or around a random
corner. (That wasn't a dig at a certain bus driver who posts on this
group... alright, maybe it was.)

Some months ago, a driver on the 241 had to ask us passengers how to traverse
the narrow streets of the Keir Hardie estate after leaving Canning Town.
Eventually we reached the Victoria Dock Road at Royal Albert DLR!

John Rowland wrote:

Hi all,

I saw this on the front of a 91 the other day, shortly after it had left its
Crouch End terminus. Since double-decker buses aren't the easiest things to
turn around, except at authorised turnarounds, I am surprised that the blind
didn't specify the point where the bus was turning, and that it did say what
it said. Is it a new policy not to bother putting known emergency
turnarounds on blinds?

I saw a 323 at Canning Town with the same, and a 179 at Barking London Road
stand within the last few weeks.

"Solar Penguin" wrote in
message ...
"Mark Brader" wrote in message ...
John Rowland:

Since double-decker buses aren't the easiest things
to turn around, except at authorised turnarounds

Mark Brader:
They aren't? Wouldn't it just be a matter of going
"around the block" via suitable side streets?

John Rowland:
Yes, but most side streets and corners here aren't suitable. ...

In what way?

Probably too narrow, like most streets in London.

To add to everyone's other comments, at traffic lights where buses turn the
corner, the STOP line in the road that the bus turns left into may be set
back a significant distance to allow the bus to turn left without hitting
queueing cars. Turning right is not usually such a squeeze, but finding a
bit of the road network where the bus can do a 180 degree turn without
turning left might not always be too easy.

Which reminds me, I noticed the bus terminus at Barnet Church a few weeks
ago. Although the sliproad in question is not restricted to buses, it looks
completely pointless until you realise it facilitates U-turns in a long
vehicle. But I don't understand why the bus terminus was built there - any
bus turning there fails to serve most of the High Street and the shopping
centre.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes