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Old September 1st 19, 04:56 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Pumping useful heat out of the Tube

On 01/09/2019 16:11, Recliner wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 01/09/2019 15:32, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 1 Sep 2019 14:05:50 +0100, Peter Able wrote:

On 01/09/2019 12:41, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 31/08/2019 23:36, Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , MissRiaElaine
writes

So why do all the roundel signs say Underground..? That's what it's
been known as my whole life and I was born in London even though I
don't live there any more.

Next time you're in London get a map, it's called the TUBE map.

It is now, because some idiot decided to change the name. All the old
maps I saved from my childhood say Underground.


Save toner and breath - and call it LT. That was how it was 50 years
ago when I worked for, LT.

LU, surely? LT includes more than the Underground.


Not 50 years ago


Was LT only the Underground back then? I thought it included the buses. If
not, what was the umbrella organisation called?

- and as I explained (shame on you for quoting
selectively)


But I didn't. I quoted your whole post. Shame on you for thinking I'm
Roland!

it strengthened morale and never led to ambiguity. LU
sounds like where that morale got flushed down by the "image fetishists"
I never remember seeing an intending rail passenger waiting for that
train at a bus stop - or vice-versa.

Of course, that doesn't mean it never happened...





Yes, but that was not my latest post on the matter in that part of the
thread - 20 minutes earl1er than yours. Nevertheless, you've cut me to
the quick to think that I might have appeared to be be comparing anyone
to that augusty gentleman. My abject apologies.

And my earlier point was that LT did cover the whole field - preserving
the idea of a co-ordinated system - and giving the staff the idea that
here was a for-the-benefit-of-the-public service. Incidentally, as an
old-style conservative I was a bit shocked at first that the unions
seemed to have their foot so firmly on the windpipe of the LT
management. I soon found out, across the several LT premises that I
visited, that the the unions had a very strong management code for the
bruvvas - and sistas - who were thought to be swinging the lead.

A sort of "On The Waterfront" on wheels !

PA

  #42   Report Post  
Old September 1st 19, 04:59 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Pumping useful heat out of the Tube

On 01/09/2019 16:28, Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , Recliner
writes
Peter Able wrote:
On 01/09/2019 15:32, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 1 Sep 2019 14:05:50 +0100, Peter Able wrote:

On 01/09/2019 12:41, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 31/08/2019 23:36, Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , MissRiaElaine
writes

So why do all the roundel signs say Underground..? That's what it's
been known as my whole life and I was born in London even though I
don't live there any more.

Next time you're in London get a map, it's called the TUBE map.

It is now, because some idiot decided to change the name. All the old
maps I saved from my childhood say Underground.


Save toner and breath - and call it LT.Â* That was how it was 50 years
ago when I worked for, LT.

LU, surely?Â* LT includes more than the Underground.


Not 50 years ago


Was LT only the Underground back then?Â* I thought it included the
buses. If
not, what was the umbrella organisation called?


As far as I recall LPTB was the umbrella organisation for London Buses
Tube and trams etc. from the 1920s

On Transport Nationalisation in 1948 this became LTE (London Country
Buses & Green Line Buses were excluded)

Might be wrong.

OT I wonder who prefer callingÂ* buses Omnibuses their original name.


Flanders & Swann

https://youtu.be/mVHbF0jAzMw



- and as I explained (shame on you for quoting
selectively)


But I didn't. I quoted your whole post. Shame on you for thinking I'm
Roland!

it strengthened morale and never led to ambiguity.Â* LU
sounds like where that morale got flushed down by the "image fetishists"
Â*I never remember seeing an intending rail passenger waiting for that
train at a bus stop - or vice-versa.

Of course, that doesn't mean it never happened...



PA

  #43   Report Post  
Old September 1st 19, 05:00 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Pumping useful heat out of the Tube

Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , Recliner
writes
Peter Able wrote:
On 01/09/2019 15:32, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 1 Sep 2019 14:05:50 +0100, Peter Able wrote:

On 01/09/2019 12:41, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 31/08/2019 23:36, Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , MissRiaElaine
writes

So why do all the roundel signs say Underground..? That's what it's
been known as my whole life and I was born in London even though I
don't live there any more.

Next time you're in London get a map, it's called the TUBE map.

It is now, because some idiot decided to change the name. All the old
maps I saved from my childhood say Underground.


Save toner and breath - and call it LT. That was how it was 50 years
ago when I worked for, LT.

LU, surely? LT includes more than the Underground.


Not 50 years ago


Was LT only the Underground back then? I thought it included the buses. If
not, what was the umbrella organisation called?


As far as I recall LPTB was the umbrella organisation for London Buses
Tube and trams etc. from the 1920s

On Transport Nationalisation in 1948 this became LTE (London Country
Buses & Green Line Buses were excluded)

Might be wrong.


Assuming you're right, and LTE is indeed the parent organisation, what were
the underground railways and buses parts called?


OT I wonder who prefer calling buses Omnibuses their original name.


Yes, I wondered that too. Of course, you still occasionally hear people
talking about charabancs.

  #44   Report Post  
Old September 1st 19, 05:15 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 93
Default Pumping useful heat out of the Tube

On 01/09/2019 17:00, Recliner wrote:
Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , Recliner
writes
Peter Able wrote:
On 01/09/2019 15:32, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 1 Sep 2019 14:05:50 +0100, Peter Able wrote:

On 01/09/2019 12:41, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 31/08/2019 23:36, Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , MissRiaElaine
writes

So why do all the roundel signs say Underground..? That's what it's
been known as my whole life and I was born in London even though I
don't live there any more.

Next time you're in London get a map, it's called the TUBE map.

It is now, because some idiot decided to change the name. All the old
maps I saved from my childhood say Underground.


Save toner and breath - and call it LT. That was how it was 50 years
ago when I worked for, LT.

LU, surely? LT includes more than the Underground.


Not 50 years ago

Was LT only the Underground back then? I thought it included the buses. If
not, what was the umbrella organisation called?


As far as I recall LPTB was the umbrella organisation for London Buses
Tube and trams etc. from the 1920s

On Transport Nationalisation in 1948 this became LTE (London Country
Buses & Green Line Buses were excluded)

Might be wrong.


Assuming you're right, and LTE is indeed the parent organisation, what were
the underground railways and buses parts called?


I don't think that they had an individual identity - intentionally. The
ethos then was the reverse of that today. Ashfield and Morrison would
turn in their graves!


OT I wonder who prefer calling buses Omnibuses their original name.


Yes, I wondered that too. Of course, you still occasionally hear people
talking about charabancs.


And wasn't it a Mister Train who introduced Trams to London?

PA
  #45   Report Post  
Old September 1st 19, 05:22 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Pumping useful heat out of the Tube

In message , Peter
Able writes
On 01/09/2019 16:28, Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , Recliner
writes
Peter Able wrote:
On 01/09/2019 15:32, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 1 Sep 2019 14:05:50 +0100, Peter Able wrote:

On 01/09/2019 12:41, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 31/08/2019 23:36, Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , MissRiaElaine
writes

So why do all the roundel signs say Underground..? That's what it's
been known as my whole life and I was born in London even though I
don't live there any more.

Next time you're in London get a map, it's called the TUBE map.

It is now, because some idiot decided to change the name. All the old
maps I saved from my childhood say Underground.


Save toner and breath - and call it LT.* That was how it was 50 years
ago when I worked for, LT.

LU, surely?* LT includes more than the Underground.


Not 50 years ago

Was LT only the Underground back then?* I thought it included the
buses. If
not, what was the umbrella organisation called?

As far as I recall LPTB was the umbrella organisation for London
Buses Tube and trams etc. from the 1920s
On Transport Nationalisation in 1948 this became LTE (London Country
Buses & Green Line Buses were excluded)
Might be wrong.
OT I wonder who prefer calling* buses Omnibuses their original name.


Flanders & Swann

https://youtu.be/mVHbF0jAzMw

I used to go to events at a wine bar called The George Shillibeer the
inventor of the omnibus
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Shillibeer).
The building still has the London General Omnibus's name on it outside
being, at one time, the omnibus depot

The first omnibus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George...st_omnibus.png

and not a roundel in sight.
--
Bryan Morris


  #46   Report Post  
Old September 1st 19, 06:45 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Pumping useful heat out of the Tube

Peter Able wrote:
On 01/09/2019 12:41, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 31/08/2019 23:36, Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , MissRiaElaine
writes

So why do all the roundel signs say Underground..? That's what it's
been known as my whole life and I was born in London even though I
don't live there any more.

Next time you're in London get a map, it's called the TUBE map.


It is now, because some idiot decided to change the name. All the old
maps I saved from my childhood say Underground.


Save toner and breath - and call it LT. That was how it was 50 years
ago when I worked for, LT.

PA


50 years ago was 1969 which seems horribly recent with many of the
interesting parts of LT already fading away like Q stock with only a couple
of years left in service. When was it they replaced the gold coloured
legend London Transport on the side of the cars with a plain white roundel
and changed the shade of red from train red to bus red on the remaining
stock that wore it? It never seemed quite the same after that happened .
Didn’t some of the silver stock lose the London Transport name in Red
Letters having it replaced by the plain title UndergrounD .
50 years back from 1969 takes us to 1919 so it is likely that when you
joined a few old hands were still
knashing their dentures at the take over by the LPTB in 1933 and still in
their mind were working for the Combine.


GH






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Old September 1st 19, 07:00 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Pumping useful heat out of the Tube

MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 01/09/2019 10:57, Marland wrote:

So using the maps and what they are titled isn’t really a good indication
of what the network was popularly known as at any one time as saying “ I’m
going to take the London Electric Railways “ would be a bit of a mouthful.â€

My London relatives who were around from the 1920’s generally called it the
UndergrounD and I of 1950’s
vintage and generally still do. Tube which has equally been around since
the early 20th century since it it started as a catchy marketing title was
generally thought to be the the deeper bored lines.
The distinction between the two seems have become blurred from about
the1970’s- 1980’s and has now become official.

The same period has seen many use Train Station instead of Railway
Station.,neither are wrong it is just the way our language evolves .


I spent 15+ years working for British Rail, not British Trains. It will
always be a railway station as far as I'm concerned.


Officially were you not working for British Railways?

British Rail is just as much a fashion change albeit a 1960’s one for
publicity purposes
as Underground being changed to Tube for similar reasons more recently.


Train station is an Americanism. Next you'll be wanting me to drop the u
from colour, armour and similar words. No thanks.


I suppose you can claim they are a few miles closer but would you want to
tell some of the inhabitants of Northern Ireland with their notoriously
quick temper that their railway system is wrong to use an Americanism.

https://images.app.goo.gl/ozCeMHXXvBCw4WWs9

Anyhow if it wasn’t for American influence the Underground would not have
developed in the way in it did.
Do you object to them calling the vehicles cars instead of coaches for
instance.

GH





  #48   Report Post  
Old September 1st 19, 07:10 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Pumping useful heat out of the Tube

On 01/09/2019 18:45, Marland wrote:
Peter Able wrote:
On 01/09/2019 12:41, MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 31/08/2019 23:36, Bryan Morris wrote:
In message , MissRiaElaine
writes

So why do all the roundel signs say Underground..? That's what it's
been known as my whole life and I was born in London even though I
don't live there any more.

Next time you're in London get a map, it's called the TUBE map.

It is now, because some idiot decided to change the name. All the old
maps I saved from my childhood say Underground.


Save toner and breath - and call it LT. That was how it was 50 years
ago when I worked for, LT.

PA


50 years ago was 1969 which seems horribly recent with many of the
interesting parts of LT already fading away like Q stock with only a couple
of years left in service. When was it they replaced the gold coloured
legend London Transport on the side of the cars with a plain white roundel
and changed the shade of red from train red to bus red on the remaining
stock that wore it? It never seemed quite the same after that happened .
Didn’t some of the silver stock lose the London Transport name in Red
Letters having it replaced by the plain title UndergrounD .
50 years back from 1969 takes us to 1919 so it is likely that when you
joined a few old hands were still
knashing their dentures at the take over by the LPTB in 1933 and still in
their mind were working for the Combine.


GH

The past is a foreign country... All sorts of mixtures of the various Q
stock in a unit. Pre-decimal currency and the sheer weight of cash-up
bags; old guys with their fingerprints just about erased by
aforementioned currency; old guys with their hands irretrievably
blackened; old, old passengers with their special life-long passes -
leather and metal - presumably from pre-LPTB rights; no sign of the
white roundels; occasional use of old wooden ticket "wickets" on the
buses; jobs for life.

PA


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Old September 1st 19, 07:31 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Pumping useful heat out of the Tube

On 01/09/2019 19:00, Marland wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 01/09/2019 10:57, Marland wrote:

So using the maps and what they are titled isn’t really a good indication
of what the network was popularly known as at any one time as saying “ I’m
going to take the London Electric Railways “ would be a bit of a mouthful.â€

My London relatives who were around from the 1920’s generally called it the
UndergrounD and I of 1950’s
vintage and generally still do. Tube which has equally been around since
the early 20th century since it it started as a catchy marketing title was
generally thought to be the the deeper bored lines.
The distinction between the two seems have become blurred from about
the1970’s- 1980’s and has now become official.

The same period has seen many use Train Station instead of Railway
Station.,neither are wrong it is just the way our language evolves .


I spent 15+ years working for British Rail, not British Trains. It will
always be a railway station as far as I'm concerned.


Officially were you not working for British Railways?

British Rail is just as much a fashion change albeit a 1960’s one for
publicity purposes
as Underground being changed to Tube for similar reasons more recently.


Train station is an Americanism. Next you'll be wanting me to drop the u
from colour, armour and similar words. No thanks.


I suppose you can claim they are a few miles closer but would you want to
tell some of the inhabitants of Northern Ireland with their notoriously
quick temper that their railway system is wrong to use an Americanism.

https://images.app.goo.gl/ozCeMHXXvBCw4WWs9

Anyhow if it wasn’t for American influence the Underground would not have
developed in the way in it did.
Do you object to them calling the vehicles cars instead of coaches for
instance.

GH

Good point. Likewise northbound, southbound etc.

Yerkes lives !

PA
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Old September 1st 19, 08:59 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Pumping useful heat out of the Tube

Marland wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 01/09/2019 10:57, Marland wrote:

So using the maps and what they are titled isn’t really a good indication
of what the network was popularly known as at any one time as saying “ I’m
going to take the London Electric Railways “ would be a bit of a mouthful.â€

My London relatives who were around from the 1920’s generally called it the
UndergrounD and I of 1950’s
vintage and generally still do. Tube which has equally been around since
the early 20th century since it it started as a catchy marketing title was
generally thought to be the the deeper bored lines.
The distinction between the two seems have become blurred from about
the1970’s- 1980’s and has now become official.

The same period has seen many use Train Station instead of Railway
Station.,neither are wrong it is just the way our language evolves .


I spent 15+ years working for British Rail, not British Trains. It will
always be a railway station as far as I'm concerned.


Officially were you not working for British Railways?

British Rail is just as much a fashion change albeit a 1960’s one for
publicity purposes
as Underground being changed to Tube for similar reasons more recently.


Train station is an Americanism. Next you'll be wanting me to drop the u
from colour, armour and similar words. No thanks.


I suppose you can claim they are a few miles closer but would you want to
tell some of the inhabitants of Northern Ireland with their notoriously
quick temper that their railway system is wrong to use an Americanism.

https://images.app.goo.gl/ozCeMHXXvBCw4WWs9


Isn't Gatwick Airport station called the 'Train Station' as you walk
towards it from Arrivals?

Ah yes, found this:
https://images.app.goo.gl/xoh9mQopQ9Te6fW36


Anyhow if it wasn’t for American influence the Underground would not have
developed in the way in it did.
Do you object to them calling the vehicles cars instead of coaches for
instance.


Yes, that's a good point.



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