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Old September 11th 19, 03:00 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Northern Line goes south

Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
Recliner wrote:

I know my weight in kg.


But quick, what about stone?


I've no idea. In always thought stones were a silly unit of measure.


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Old September 11th 19, 03:07 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Northern Line goes south

On 11/09/2019 16:00, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I know my
weight in kg.


It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?


Have you seen or used a medical thermometer any time recently?


https://www.amazon.com/ANKOVO-Medica.../dp/B07J6BR6X8

You can't live in the last century forever.

Will you tell the Americans or should I?

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Villagers - 2010 - Becoming A Jackal
  #63   Report Post  
Old September 11th 19, 03:20 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Northern Line goes south

Basil Jet wrote:
On 11/09/2019 16:00, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I know my
weight in kg.

It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?


Have you seen or used a medical thermometer any time recently?


https://www.amazon.com/ANKOVO-Medica.../dp/B07J6BR6X8


That's Amazon US. But I agree, it's probably possible to set digital
thermometers to have a retro display.


You can't live in the last century forever.

Will you tell the Americans or should I?


They can live in the last century if they like, but it's not an option
anywhere else.


  #64   Report Post  
Old September 11th 19, 03:30 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Northern Line goes south

On 11/09/2019 16:20, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 11/09/2019 16:00, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I know my
weight in kg.

It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?

Have you seen or used a medical thermometer any time recently?


https://www.amazon.com/ANKOVO-Medica.../dp/B07J6BR6X8


That's Amazon US. But I agree, it's probably possible to set digital
thermometers to have a retro display.

You can't live in the last century forever.

Will you tell the Americans or should I?


They can live in the last century if they like, but it's not an option
anywhere else.


So long as we can buy their products or products made for them, it is.
(I'm a metric fan BTW, I'm just saying people don't have to be.)

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Villagers - 2010 - Becoming A Jackal
  #65   Report Post  
Old September 11th 19, 03:42 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Northern Line goes south

In message , at 14:44:35 on Wed, 11
Sep 2019, Marland remarked:
wRoland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:41:10 on Tue, 10
Sep 2019, Marland remarked:
It was London Transport which recalculated its route measurements to
Kilometres back in 1972 .
Ironically they chose Ongar as the 0 datum

I think they chose Ongar because it was the furthest east.

which means their measurements start on a line that was closed and is
now no longer theirs

It's not the only disappeared datum. Road miles from London were
measured from the Post Office near St Pauls (the tube station used to be
called "Post Office") because postage was originally calculated by the
mile.

Hmm, I always thought it was where the original Charing Cross was
located.

I could see the Post Office might have used its own datum for
postage from its own main London premises for its own purposes but
the Post Office premises you mention were not constructed until the
early 19th Century and many milestones would have been put in place
before that by the Turnpike Trusts who were required to do so.

The date of the building on that site today isn't relevant. Some say the
datum is actually a little further north, at the site now occupied by
Mount Pleasant sorting office; but that doesn't change the basic
principle.

Perhaps someone else can adjudicate.

The wording on this plaque seems pretty definitive

https://ads9rca.wordpress.com/2016/1...tarting-point/

Unfortunately, the plaque doesn't say 'Measured by... whom".

And the elephant in the room is that Charing Cross was the *penultimate*
stop on the trip in question ("a little village near Westminster" in
longer versions of the story), the final destination being Westminster.

If there had been a "final" cross at Westminster (and many people think
Big Ben is where distances are measured from) then it would be far more
compelling.

Quite a few people say that the Charing Cross (or Trafalgar Square in
fact) was chosen as a datum by the AA, as more central of a place in
London bearing in mind how it had developed by the time they started
publishing their own maps.

So the real answer is that nobody seems to know which one it should be and
one claim is no better or worse than the other.


You are making the assumption that one or other is "correct" and the
other must therefore be "wrong".

Where did I say that one or the other is is correct and the other wrong ?


You are implying that you are clinging to the Trafalgar Square meme,
which I don't think there's any evidence for other than the AA deciding
to use it.

All I asked for was an answer and it appears that there are several all
which of which could be correct for one purpose but not another.


We can agree about that. So no "main one", not even Trafalgar Square
(unless we count it being the main old wife's tale on the subject).

Its almost as if you are wanting me to argue that your suggestion was wrong
so you you can start one of your long winded arguments to bolster your
ego even though I haven’t actually disagreed with you, just not accepted
that the one you put forward has any more merit


Only precedence over Turnpikes and Trafalgar Square, and I wouldn't
accuse you of ego over the mention of Ongar for the tube distances, so
I'm not sure why that comes into it. I'm trying to write about some
serious historical research here.

to be the main one than any other.


See earlier.
--
Roland Perry


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Old September 11th 19, 03:42 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Northern Line goes south

On 11/09/2019 16:07, Basil Jet wrote:
On 11/09/2019 16:00, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as
that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I
know my
weight in kg.

It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?


Have you seen or used a medical thermometer any time recently?


https://www.amazon.com/ANKOVO-Medica.../dp/B07J6BR6X8


You can't live in the last century forever.

Will you tell the Americans or should I?


Never mind the Americans, someone tell Rees-Mogg.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

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Old September 11th 19, 04:19 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Northern Line goes south



"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 20:21, Recliner wrote:
Sammi Gray-Jones wrote:

And as you rightly point out it's now 0-62.5mph, still in miles per
hour. Not 0-100 kph.


It's quoted that way for the benefit of ignorant Brits, but what they
actually measure is 0-100 km/h. Many cars are limited to 250 km/h,
described as '155 mph' for ignorant Brits.

Excuse me, but I take exception to that. I'm British (not "a Brit"
please, I'm not American either) and I use imperial measurements. I do
so because I was brought up with them and I'm used to them. I fail to
see why I should be forced to use the metric system. Why can't both be
used..? I still struggle to understand the weather forecasts when
temperatures are only quoted in degrees C.

The country went metric decades ago.


but not when it came to measuring roads


Of course they're metric. Try finding any imperial measurements in this
typical document:

http://www.standardsforhighways.co.uk/ha/standards/mchw/vol1/pdfs/MCHW%20700.pdf


I was talking about distance along them

as well you knew



  #68   Report Post  
Old September 11th 19, 06:25 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Northern Line goes south

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:44:35 on Wed, 11
Sep 2019, Marland remarked:
wRoland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:41:10 on Tue, 10
Sep 2019, Marland remarked:
It was London Transport which recalculated its route measurements to
Kilometres back in 1972 .
Ironically they chose Ongar as the 0 datum

I think they chose Ongar because it was the furthest east.

which means their measurements start on a line that was closed and is
now no longer theirs

It's not the only disappeared datum. Road miles from London were
measured from the Post Office near St Pauls (the tube station used to be
called "Post Office") because postage was originally calculated by the
mile.

Hmm, I always thought it was where the original Charing Cross was
located.

I could see the Post Office might have used its own datum for
postage from its own main London premises for its own purposes but
the Post Office premises you mention were not constructed until the
early 19th Century and many milestones would have been put in place
before that by the Turnpike Trusts who were required to do so.

The date of the building on that site today isn't relevant. Some say the
datum is actually a little further north, at the site now occupied by
Mount Pleasant sorting office; but that doesn't change the basic
principle.

Perhaps someone else can adjudicate.

The wording on this plaque seems pretty definitive

https://ads9rca.wordpress.com/2016/1...tarting-point/

Unfortunately, the plaque doesn't say 'Measured by... whom".

And the elephant in the room is that Charing Cross was the *penultimate*
stop on the trip in question ("a little village near Westminster" in
longer versions of the story), the final destination being Westminster.

If there had been a "final" cross at Westminster (and many people think
Big Ben is where distances are measured from) then it would be far more
compelling.

Quite a few people say that the Charing Cross (or Trafalgar Square in
fact) was chosen as a datum by the AA, as more central of a place in
London bearing in mind how it had developed by the time they started
publishing their own maps.

So the real answer is that nobody seems to know which one it should be and
one claim is no better or worse than the other.

You are making the assumption that one or other is "correct" and the
other must therefore be "wrong".

Where did I say that one or the other is is correct and the other wrong ?


You are implying that you are clinging to the Trafalgar Square meme,
which I don't think there's any evidence for other than the AA deciding
to use it.

I never even mentioned Trafalgar Square or the AA the only location I
mentioned was the original Charing Cross and even then asked for other
opinions on that rather saying it must be so.
Even for you this a new technique to justify turning a discussion into an
argument, by implying something from words somebody hasn’t said.

All I asked for was an answer and it appears that there are several all
which of which could be correct for one purpose but not another.


We can agree about that. So no "main one", not even Trafalgar Square
(unless we count it being the main old wife's tale on the subject).

Its almost as if you are wanting me to argue that your suggestion was wrong
so you you can start one of your long winded arguments to bolster your
ego even though I haven’t actually disagreed with you, just not accepted
that the one you put forward has any more merit


Only precedence over Turnpikes and Trafalgar Square, and I wouldn't
accuse you of ego over the mention of Ongar for the tube distances, so
I'm not sure why that comes into it. I'm trying to write about some
serious historical research here.

My mention of Ongar was done because it is an interesting Railway factoid
and also an example to our Aberdeen correspondent that the London Transport
they remember as an example tradition of the good old days initiated a
major Metrication exercise 40 years ago, it was from that you seem to have
decided that you want to hold a point scoring debate ,an activity you are
renowned for by mentioning the Post office datum which turns not to be the
only candidate for distances too and from London .

At least the Ongar one can be verified

GH

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Old September 11th 19, 09:32 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Northern Line goes south

Graeme Wall wrote:
On 11/09/2019 16:07, Basil Jet wrote:
On 11/09/2019 16:00, Recliner wrote:
MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 10/09/2019 23:51, Recliner wrote:

Yes, many of us were brought up with quaint imperial measures, but it's
easy to adapt. I still remember my height in ft and inches, as
that's what
we used when it was last measured (when I was a teenager), but I
know my
weight in kg.

It may be easy to adapt for you, but please do not be so arrogant as to
assume it is the same for everyone. I simply cannot do it, and quite
honestly I do not see why I should. Why can't both systems be used..?

Have you seen or used a medical thermometer any time recently?


https://www.amazon.com/ANKOVO-Medica.../dp/B07J6BR6X8


You can't live in the last century forever.

Will you tell the Americans or should I?


Never mind the Americans, someone tell Rees-Mogg.


I don't have a time machine to the 18th century…

  #70   Report Post  
Old September 12th 19, 02:16 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Posts: 9,628
Default Northern Line goes south

In message , at 18:25:32 on Wed, 11 Sep
2019, Marland remarked:

I never even mentioned Trafalgar Square or the AA the only location I
mentioned was the original Charing Cross


The original Charing Cross was located at what's now one of the corners
of Trafalgar Square.

and even then asked for other opinions on that rather saying it must
be so.


My opinion, based on quite a lot of research, being: having earlier
specified mileages to various gateways like Marble Arch, the AA decided
for its maps to consolidate on Trafalgar Square. This has become a meme
about "Charing Cross" (the original one only having a plaque) and an
unspoken implication that it has always been the case (long before the
AA)

Its almost as if you are wanting me to argue that your suggestion was wrong
so you you can start one of your long winded arguments to bolster your
ego even though I haven’t actually disagreed with you, just not accepted
that the one you put forward has any more merit


Only precedence over Turnpikes and Trafalgar Square, and I wouldn't
accuse you of ego over the mention of Ongar for the tube distances, so
I'm not sure why that comes into it. I'm trying to write about some
serious historical research here.

My mention of Ongar was done because it is an interesting Railway factoid
and also an example to our Aberdeen correspondent that the London Transport
they remember as an example tradition of the good old days initiated a
major Metrication exercise 40 years ago, it was from that you seem to have
decided that you want to hold a point scoring debate ,an activity you are
renowned for by mentioning the Post office datum which turns not to be the
only candidate


It's the original one, though (if you ignore the Romans). And the
Turnpikes used a range of gateways (not unlike the AA did originally,
perhaps they modelled themselves on those).

for distances too and from London .

At least the Ongar one can be verified


The Post Office one can be as well. The mystery about the Charing
Cross/AA one is that as far as I can tell no-one has ever been able to
expand on what it says on that fairly recent and vague plaque.

I think I'll do a FOI on Westminster City Council, and see what they
have to say.
--
Roland Perry


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