In message , at 08:35:36 on Fri, 8 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked:

Ealing Broadway (in general not just the station) is rather inhospitable
as a railhead. I don't think I'd recommend it for a novice overseas
visitor.

Why? Lift up to the station, a few steps through the barrier, taxi rank
right outside. Far better than the long hike at Paddington from platfrm 6/7
to the taxi rank above and beyond the H&C line platform 16.

For someone who spends so much time in first class lounges, you have a
high expectation that others will want to "slum it" in an unfamiliar
(and rather run-down) London suburb.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 22:01:51 on Sat, 9 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked:
Even if you're going somewhere in north london on the piccadilly line it
would probably still be considerably quicker to take crossrail and change
in central london twice. As for KX - Farringdon then 1 stop on the met or
thameslink, finsbury park - farringdon then 2 stops on thameslink (if they
can be bothered to run their trains on time just for once).

Crossrail might be quicker, but the trains will be less frequent than the
Piccadilly, and people with luggage don't like changing trains. Overall,
the Piccadilly is more convenient, and probably hardly slower end-to-end.

Well until we see a crossrail timetable there's no way to tell, but having
commuted all the way to hatton cross and back each day for 9 months on that
line I would be very surprised if it was the same end to end. It is utterly
hopeless especially in the rush hour - it literally crawls through west london
and only once past hammersmith does it reach anything approaching a reasonable
speed. And then there'd usually be some pointless delay at Acton. I actually
terminated the contract early because I couldn't stand it any longer, almost
2 hours each way door to door on a bad day (which was most of them).

While you have a point about luggage, a lot of the time in the rush hour there
was often nowhere left for more heathrow bound passengers to put theirs and
they ended up sitting on their cases in the middle of the vestibule.

I'm forced to agree about the crowding/standing, having taken the
Piccadilly from Kings Cross to Heathrow T4 and back earlier this year.
And not even during a rush hour (it was Saturday mid-morning and
mid-evening). The attraction, rather than using HEx/Connect, was only
having to change trains once, at Kings Cross.

Exactly. It's an easy, if protracted, journey.

I wouldn't have called the rather long walks (with luggage) at
either end "easy", nor the standing on the train with its constant
start/stopping. The only attraction was lack of further changes, and
once on the train a reasonably accurate prediction of when we'd arrive.

As it happens we only just made the 1tph onward from Kings Cross,
whereas we were far too early to the airport (but an hour later,
assuming no cancellations and it therefore not being two hours later)
would have been too tight.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:35:36 on Fri, 8 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked:

Ealing Broadway (in general not just the station) is rather inhospitable
as a railhead. I don't think I'd recommend it for a novice overseas
visitor.

Why? Lift up to the station, a few steps through the barrier, taxi rank
right outside. Far better than the long hike at Paddington from platfrm 6/7
to the taxi rank above and beyond the H&C line platform 16.

For someone who spends so much time in first class lounges, you have a
high expectation that others will want to "slum it" in an unfamiliar
(and rather run-down) London suburb.

Paddington is a much worse area than Ealing, which has some very nice,
leafy parts just near the station. It's obvious that you're condemning it
while knowing nothing about the station or the area.

And why do you assume that Ealing is more unfamiliar than Paddington?
Someone using it as a railhead would be doing so deliberately, because it
was conveniently located.

wrote:
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 14:33:29 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 9 Nov 2019 02:18:00 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
John Levine wrote:
In article ,
Recliner wrote:
Aside from Hex I suspect the piccadilly line will face a hefty slump in
passengers too given how slow and uncomfortable it is.

Yes, quite likely: for many pax, Crossrail will be the better option. I'm
not one of them, but will be delighted if the Tube trains are less
packed.

Since TfL gets the fare whether you take the Picc or Crossrail,
wouldn't that be their cunning plan to free up more underground
capacity?

I think both are cheap enough that pax will choose between them based on
convenience, not price. It really depends on whether the Piccadilly or
Crossrail routes suit you better.

Oddly enough, the only interchange stations between the Piccadilly and
Crossrail are at Heathrow, so they serve a different set of central London
stations. The Piccadilly then goes on to serve north London, and Crossrail,
the City and east London. So, if you're heading for Padd, Farringdon or
Liverpool St, choose Crossrail; for Kings Cross St Pancras, the Piccadilly.

Even if you're going somewhere in north london on the piccadilly line it
would probably still be considerably quicker to take crossrail and change
in central london twice. As for KX - Farringdon then 1 stop on the met or
thameslink, finsbury park - farringdon then 2 stops on thameslink (if they
can be bothered to run their trains on time just for once).

Crossrail might be quicker, but the trains will be less frequent than the
Piccadilly, and people with luggage don't like changing trains. Overall,
the Piccadilly is more convenient, and probably hardly slower end-to-end.

Well until we see a crossrail timetable there's no way to tell, but having
commuted all the way to hatton cross and back each day for 9 months on that
line I would be very surprised if it was the same end to end.

We already have the Crossrail journey planner. It estimates 39 minutes from
LHR T5 to Farringdon, or 40 from T4 to Farringdon. If you allow 5+ mins for
changing to the Underground, and another 5 mins to get to Kings Cross,
that's about 50+ minutes. It's about 10 mins longer on the Tube, but with a
more frequent service and no change required at Heathrow Central, it might
be only 5 mins longer on average.

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:08:49 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Well until we see a crossrail timetable there's no way to tell, but having
commuted all the way to hatton cross and back each day for 9 months on that
line I would be very surprised if it was the same end to end.

We already have the Crossrail journey planner. It estimates 39 minutes from
LHR T5 to Farringdon, or 40 from T4 to Farringdon. If you allow 5+ mins for
changing to the Underground, and another 5 mins to get to Kings Cross,
that's about 50+ minutes. It's about 10 mins longer on the Tube, but with a

Only 10 mins longer on the tube if the piccadilly line timetable hasn't gone up
the spout yet again. Which probably happens slightly less often than Brexit.
Still, rather moot until Crossfail actually starts which always seems to be
a year away.

wrote:
On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 11:08:49 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Well until we see a crossrail timetable there's no way to tell, but having
commuted all the way to hatton cross and back each day for 9 months on that
line I would be very surprised if it was the same end to end.

We already have the Crossrail journey planner. It estimates 39 minutes from
LHR T5 to Farringdon, or 40 from T4 to Farringdon. If you allow 5+ mins for
changing to the Underground, and another 5 mins to get to Kings Cross,
that's about 50+ minutes. It's about 10 mins longer on the Tube, but with a

Only 10 mins longer on the tube if the piccadilly line timetable hasn't gone up
the spout yet again. Which probably happens slightly less often than Brexit.
Still, rather moot until Crossfail actually starts which always seems to be
a year away.

More, now.

The tunnel won't open in 2020, and even if it opens in early 2021 — far
from guaranteed — the through services will come later. So, through trains
from Heathrow to Farringdon are probably at least two years away.

In message , at 09:15:34 on Sun, 10 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:35:36 on Fri, 8 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked:

Ealing Broadway (in general not just the station) is rather inhospitable
as a railhead. I don't think I'd recommend it for a novice overseas
visitor.

Why? Lift up to the station, a few steps through the barrier, taxi rank
right outside. Far better than the long hike at Paddington from platfrm 6/7
to the taxi rank above and beyond the H&C line platform 16.

For someone who spends so much time in first class lounges, you have a
high expectation that others will want to "slum it" in an unfamiliar
(and rather run-down) London suburb.

Paddington is a much worse area than Ealing, which has some very nice,
leafy parts just near the station.

Padding station has many excellent facilities, and you don't need to
tangle with the streets outside.

It's obvious that you're condemning it while knowing nothing about the
station or the area.

Strangely, I spent a week on holiday in Ealing Broadway, selected
because of the rail service to London. I was hoping for leafy-suburb but
got much more of an inner-city experience.

And why do you assume that Ealing is more unfamiliar than Paddington?

The people I'm talking about are foreigners, just off a plane. Why would
they be familiar with Ealing Broadway? What they will be slightly more
familiar with is the concept of capital city mainline stations, and what
they might expect to find there, compared to a commuter station in the
suburbs.

Someone using it as a railhead would be doing so deliberately, because it
was conveniently located.

I don't happen to think it's convenient for very much, other than people
whose destination is Ealing Broadway.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:15:34 on Sun, 10 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:35:36 on Fri, 8 Nov 2019,
Recliner remarked:

Ealing Broadway (in general not just the station) is rather inhospitable
as a railhead. I don't think I'd recommend it for a novice overseas
visitor.

Why? Lift up to the station, a few steps through the barrier, taxi rank
right outside. Far better than the long hike at Paddington from platfrm 6/7
to the taxi rank above and beyond the H&C line platform 16.

For someone who spends so much time in first class lounges, you have a
high expectation that others will want to "slum it" in an unfamiliar
(and rather run-down) London suburb.

Paddington is a much worse area than Ealing, which has some very nice,
leafy parts just near the station.

Padding station has many excellent facilities, and you don't need to
tangle with the streets outside.

It's obvious that you're condemning it while knowing nothing about the
station or the area.

Strangely, I spent a week on holiday in Ealing Broadway, selected
because of the rail service to London. I was hoping for leafy-suburb but
got much more of an inner-city experience.

And why do you assume that Ealing is more unfamiliar than Paddington?

The people I'm talking about are foreigners, just off a plane. Why would
they be familiar with Ealing Broadway? What they will be slightly more
familiar with is the concept of capital city mainline stations, and what
they might expect to find there, compared to a commuter station in the
suburbs.

Someone using it as a railhead would be doing so deliberately, because it
was conveniently located.

I don't happen to think it's convenient for very much, other than people
whose destination is Ealing Broadway.

You seem to think that the HEx target market consists solely of rich,
ignorant, timorous foreigners, travelling to London for the first time, who
have done precisely zero research into how to get to the address in London
they're aiming for. You also think that very particular market will be
large enough to survive after Crossrail.

I don't think many agree with you. I certainly don't.

On 11/11/2019 06:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:15:34 on Sun, 10 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:

Someone using it as a railhead would be doing so deliberately, because it
was conveniently located.

I don't happen to think it's convenient for very much, other than people
whose destination is Ealing Broadway.

It's very useful for the 112 bus to the Ace Café and the nearby
Travelodge, where we usually stay. Avoids going into zone 1 when coming
from Heathrow T5.

--
Ria in Aberdeen

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MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 11/11/2019 06:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:15:34 on Sun, 10 Nov
2019, Recliner remarked:

Someone using it as a railhead would be doing so deliberately, because it
was conveniently located.

I don't happen to think it's convenient for very much, other than people
whose destination is Ealing Broadway.

It's very useful for the 112 bus to the Ace Café and the nearby
Travelodge, where we usually stay. Avoids going into zone 1 when coming
from Heathrow T5.

Roland will assure you that you are not in the HEx target market. And, he's
absolutely right: by his definition, almost no-one is.