Basil Jet wrote:
On 17/12/2020 13:12, Certes wrote:

The London Connections map displays a straighter Thameslink in the same
colour scheme.Â* The map we're discussing seems to be an uneasy hybrid of
the traditional tube maps and London Connections.

It also probably has Crossrail through Farringdon on it, although that
was hidden in the released version, but it will still be there in the
document, forcing the positions of everything else. I say that because
ISTR the map was redesigned to allow Crossrail a few years ago, and is
likely to have kept that configuration.


Yes, you can more or less work out where Crossrail will be added.

On 17/12/2020 10:01, Recliner wrote:
Marland wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 16/12/2020 19:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:50:32 on Wed, 16 Dec
2020, Basil Jet remarked:
On 16/12/2020 10:41, Recliner wrote:
Geoff celebrates the belated return of Thameslink to TfL's Tube Map,
after
a long absence. And it's not just the core section, but as much as
fits in
the extended zones. So the map now features over 500 stations:
Â*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ5SQcdC48o

The map itself is not on the TfL site yet, but curiously is available
at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...back-on-the-la
test-tube-map/

Test tube map?


Just put out to test a reaction .


No, it's officially on the Tube map for at least the next 12 months, both
because of Covid and the planned Bank branch closures:

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2020/december/thameslink-services-set-to-be-temporarily-added-to-latest-tube-map-to-help-support-customers-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic


There's an awful lot of wooshing noises around here!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:50:32 on Wed, 16 Dec
2020, Basil Jet remarked:
On 16/12/2020 10:41, Recliner wrote:
Geoff celebrates the belated return of Thameslink to TfL's Tube Map, after
a long absence. And it's not just the core section, but as much as fits in
the extended zones. So the map now features over 500 stations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ5SQcdC48o

The map itself is not on the TfL site yet, but curiously is available
at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...back-on-the-la
test-tube-map/

They've left Hadley Wood off, despite it being in Zone 6.

The kink in the Thameslink Line between City TL and the junction north
of St Pancras seems inexplicable.

How else would you get round all the other blobs at KGX/StP? Especially
as the line in fact runs to the west.


Move the blobs?


Anna Noyd-Dryver

Recliner wrote:
NY wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
Leaving out the Moorgate to FP section of GN - even if they don't include
the rest - is just cretinous and a disservice to passengers.

I'm not sure why it's worse than leaving out the Waterloo-Wimbledon (etc)
National Rail routes.

I'm not sure where one should draw the line (pun *not* intended!) between
which lines to include and which to omit.

You could be strict and only include traditional London Underground lines,
and exclude Thameslink and London Overground (since those were traditionally
British Rail / Network Rail).

You could additionally include London Overground. You could include GOBLIN,
North London Line and Thameslink and Finsbury Park to Moorgate. But should
you go further and include a selection of other Network Rail services?

Until now, TfL has only covered TfL services. So it includes the
all-important Danglebahn and TfL services to Reading and Shenfield, but not
the Moorgate GN line or SN services to East Croydon (which gives the
impression of just being a tram stop with an NR connection, just like
Birkbeck. There's no clue that Clapham Junction has frequent direct
connections to Victoria and Waterloo, or that there's a direct line between
Marylebone and West Ruislip.


You need the London Connections map for that
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf


Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message , at 06:19:25 on Fri, 18 Dec
2020, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked:
Recliner wrote:
NY wrote:
"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
Leaving out the Moorgate to FP section of GN - even if they don't include
the rest - is just cretinous and a disservice to passengers.

I'm not sure why it's worse than leaving out the Waterloo-Wimbledon (etc)
National Rail routes.

I'm not sure where one should draw the line (pun *not* intended!) between
which lines to include and which to omit.

You could be strict and only include traditional London Underground lines,
and exclude Thameslink and London Overground (since those were
traditionally
British Rail / Network Rail).

You could additionally include London Overground. You could include GOBLIN,
North London Line and Thameslink and Finsbury Park to Moorgate. But should
you go further and include a selection of other Network Rail services?

Until now, TfL has only covered TfL services. So it includes the
all-important Danglebahn and TfL services to Reading and Shenfield, but not
the Moorgate GN line or SN services to East Croydon (which gives the
impression of just being a tram stop with an NR connection, just like
Birkbeck. There's no clue that Clapham Junction has frequent direct
connections to Victoria and Waterloo, or that there's a direct line between
Marylebone and West Ruislip.

You need the London Connections map for that
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf

That's remarkably similar to the Tube Map - and shows how it'd be easy
to find room for the Moorgate line. Gets Elephant and Castle correct,
too.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 06:19:24 on Fri, 18 Dec
2020, Anna Noyd-Dryver remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:50:32 on Wed, 16 Dec
2020, Basil Jet remarked:
On 16/12/2020 10:41, Recliner wrote:
Geoff celebrates the belated return of Thameslink to TfL's Tube Map, after
a long absence. And it's not just the core section, but as much as fits in
the extended zones. So the map now features over 500 stations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ5SQcdC48o

The map itself is not on the TfL site yet, but curiously is available
at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...back-on-the-la
test-tube-map/

They've left Hadley Wood off, despite it being in Zone 6.

The kink in the Thameslink Line between City TL and the junction north
of St Pancras seems inexplicable.

How else would you get round all the other blobs at KGX/StP? Especially
as the line in fact runs to the west.


Move the blobs?

I think the answer is to be found on the London Connections map, where
Thameslink traverses the separated-out St Pancras Station.

If you then simplify that map by cutting out the GN routes[1],
Thameslink will still be going "around the west".

[[1] And 2tph Thameslink into Kings Cross, which is a symptom of not
yet(?) having reached the maximum frequency in the core.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 17:30:19 +0000
Basil Jet wrote:
On 17/12/2020 11:56, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 10:45:52 +0000
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:28:03 on Thu, 17 Dec
2020, remarked:
I was thinking of the problems of showing and labelling the inner London
stations, while keeping the line reasonably straight.

Leaving out the Moorgate to FP section of GN - even if they don't include
the rest - is just cretinous and a disservice to passengers.

I'm not sure why it's worse than leaving out the Waterloo-Wimbledon
(etc) National Rail routes.

Because it used to be a tube line, still gets used as such

What does "get used as a tube line" mean?

It means people use it in preference to the Northern + victoria line as a way
to get to finsbury park. Most of that journey is underground.

On 18/12/2020 06:44, Roland Perry wrote:

You need the London Connections map for that
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf

That's remarkably similar to the Tube Map - and shows how it'd be easy to find room for the Moorgate line. Gets Elephant and Castle correct, too.

Yes, I don't really understand why a map showing only TfL services is appropriate for any passengers any more. Surely nearly everyone now uses an Oyster or Contactless bank card or else (like me, mostly) buys paper Travelcards as part of a National Rail return ticket. All these are are valid on just about all services on this side of the London Connections map (with a few minor exceptions such as the HS1 to Stratford, and fast Heathrow services from Paddington).

--
Clive Page

Basil Jet wrote:
On 16/12/2020 10:41, Recliner wrote:
Geoff celebrates the belated return of Thameslink to TfL's Tube Map, after
a long absence. And it's not just the core section, but as much as fits in
the extended zones. So the map now features over 500 stations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ5SQcdC48o

The map itself is not on the TfL site yet, but curiously is available at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...test-tube-map/

They've left Hadley Wood off, despite it being in Zone 6.

The kink in the Thameslink Line between City TL and the junction north
of St Pancras seems inexplicable.

The Bakerloo Line shouldn't enter Elephant at the same angle that the
Denmark Hill branch leaves.

Maidenhead and Reading are still portrayed north of the Thames!


The official version is up:
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/standard-tube-map.pdf

Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 16/12/2020 10:41, Recliner wrote:
Geoff celebrates the belated return of Thameslink to TfL's Tube Map, after
a long absence. And it's not just the core section, but as much as fits in
the extended zones. So the map now features over 500 stations:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ5SQcdC48o

The map itself is not on the TfL site yet, but curiously is available at
https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/202...test-tube-map/

They've left Hadley Wood off, despite it being in Zone 6.

The kink in the Thameslink Line between City TL and the junction north
of St Pancras seems inexplicable.

The Bakerloo Line shouldn't enter Elephant at the same angle that the
Denmark Hill branch leaves.

Maidenhead and Reading are still portrayed north of the Thames!


The official version is up:
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/standard-tube-map.pdf



Is the Northern line Battersea extension still due to open later this year?
If so then this edition of the map will have a short lifetime, in fact I’m
surprised the extension isn’t on there in some way even if it was shown as
a dotted or dashed line with an “opening soon� addendum.
Previous maps in the past have done so , it maybe TFL doesn’t want to
repeat the example of the never completed Northern Heights extensions which
appeared on maps and route diagrams before the scheme was abandoned. I
don’t think that will happen to the Battersea one especially as trains
under their own power have been doing testing runs in the past few weeks
but could opening be put back due to the C word.


GH