NY wrote:
"Tweed" wrote in message
...

It's just a cultural thing, like many Europeans have names like Magnus
Magnus*son*, and innumerable similar Slavic suffices.

Slavic? I thought it came from the Icelandic. There surnames come from the
first name of the parent.
So Magnusson is the male offspring of a chap whose first name was Magnus
something elseson. If he also had a female offspring her surname would
be
Magnusdottir. (Magnus’s daughter)

It made for an interesting telephone book....

It must make genealogy "interesting" because every generation of a family
will have a different surname, as will brothers and sisters.

In Icelandic, do *both* the sons and the daughters take the father's first
name? I have vague memories of being told that daughter's sometimes take the
mother's first name - so Magnus and Oddny (*) might have a son with a
surname Magnusson and a daughter with a surname Oddnydottir (rather than
Magnusdottir).

Do Icelandic women generally take their husband's surname after marriage or
do they normally / always keep their maiden surname?

Search for “iceland� he
https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 05/01/2021 18:17, Sam Wilson wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:22:35 on Tue, 5 Jan 2021,
Tweed remarked:

It's just a cultural thing, like many Europeans have names like Magnus
Magnus*son*, and innumerable similar Slavic suffices.

Slavic? I thought it came from the Icelandic. There surnames come from the
first name of the parent.

Yes, hence the use of the word "similar" (not "identical")

I’ve recently found this fascinating and instructive:
https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names


The Afghan politican Abdullah Abdullah allegedly only had one name
originally, but he got so fed up with people from elsehwere asking for
his other name that he decided it was easiest to double it so he had one.

George Brown, the tired and emotional Labour politician, became Lord
George-Brown on his elevation to the peerage because he still wanted to be
called George Brown, even though peers are conventionally known only by
their surnames. He had to change his name to George George-Brown to do it,
though. Boutros Boutros-Ghali did something similar but I don’t know the
details.

I never knew that!

Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 05/01/2021 15:00, Sam Wilson wrote:
NY wrote:

Why *do* Americans insist on using their middle initials/names on official
documentation? Does "John H Smith" sound more impressive than "John Smith"?

Apparently it does. Harry S Truman was given his middle initial in order
to suggest a middle name that he didn’t actually have.


Leading to this endless debate, which helps to keep Wikipedia editors
and such like from wandering the streets:
https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/educat...-s-truman-name

:-)

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as
Spit the dummy to reply

"Sam Wilson" wrote in message
...
NY wrote:
In Icelandic, do *both* the sons and the daughters take the father's
first
name? I have vague memories of being told that daughter's sometimes take
the
mother's first name - so Magnus and Oddny (*) might have a son with a
surname Magnusson and a daughter with a surname Oddnydottir (rather than
Magnusdottir).


Search for “iceland� he
https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names

Shame it doesn't say in what circumstances the daughter's surname is based
on her mother's rather than father's first name. I wonder if there's a
convention or just "whichever sounds better".

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
George Brown, the tired and emotional Labour politician, became Lord
George-Brown on his elevation to the peerage because he still wanted to
be
called George Brown, even though peers are conventionally known only by
their surnames. He had to change his name to George George-Brown to do
it,
though. Boutros Boutros-Ghali did something similar but I don’t know the
details.

I never knew that!

I'd forgotten all about Boutros Boutros-Ghali. Sounds like a made-up name
invented by The Fast Show ("Scorccio!") but he was always in the news in the
1990s as president of the UN. "Boutros Boutros-Ghali was born in Cairo,
Egypt, on 14 November 1922 into a Coptic Christian family. His father Yusuf
Butros Ghali was the son of Boutros Ghali Bey" (Wikipedia). Seems as if
Boutros/Butros was a family name that was so important that his parents used
it as a first name as well.

On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 21:20:09 -0000, "NY" wrote:

"Tweed" wrote in message
...

It's just a cultural thing, like many Europeans have names like Magnus
Magnus*son*, and innumerable similar Slavic suffices.

Slavic? I thought it came from the Icelandic. There surnames come from the
first name of the parent.
So Magnusson is the male offspring of a chap whose first name was Magnus
something elseson. If he also had a female offspring her surname would
be
Magnusdottir. (Magnus’s daughter)

It made for an interesting telephone book....

It must make genealogy "interesting" because every generation of a family
will have a different surname, as will brothers and sisters.

In Icelandic, do *both* the sons and the daughters take the father's first
name? I have vague memories of being told that daughter's sometimes take the
mother's first name - so Magnus and Oddny (*) might have a son with a
surname Magnusson and a daughter with a surname Oddnydottir (rather than
Magnusdottir).

Do Icelandic women generally take their husband's surname after marriage or
do they normally / always keep their maiden surname?


(*) The only Icelandic person I knew was a woman with this rather unusual (I
hesitate to say Odd!) first name.

You will also find patronymics in very old Welsh and Scottish records,
usually where the names have been given in Welsh or Gaelic.

NY wrote:
"Sam Wilson" wrote in message
...
NY wrote:
In Icelandic, do *both* the sons and the daughters take the father's
first
name? I have vague memories of being told that daughter's sometimes take
the
mother's first name - so Magnus and Oddny (*) might have a son with a
surname Magnusson and a daughter with a surname Oddnydottir (rather than
Magnusdottir).


Search for “iceland� he
https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-personal-names

Shame it doesn't say in what circumstances the daughter's surname is based
on her mother's rather than father's first name. I wonder if there's a
convention or just "whichever sounds better".

According to the all-knowing Wikipedia:

The vast majority of Icelandic last names carry the name of the father, but
occasionally the mother's name is used: e.g. if the child or mother wishes
to end social ties with the father. Some women use it as a social statement
while others simply choose it as a matter of style.

In all of these cases, the convention is the same: Ólafur, the son of
BryndÃ*s, will have the full name of Ólafur BryndÃ*sarson ("the son of
BryndÃ*s"). Some well-known Icelanders with matronymic names are the
football player Heiðar Helguson ("Helga's son"), the novelist Guðrún Eva
MÃ*nervudóttir ("Minerva's daughter"), and the medieval poet EilÃ*fr
Goðrúnarson ("Goðrún's son").

In the Icelandic film Bjarnfreðarson the title character's name is the
subject of some mockery for his having a woman's name – as Bjarnfreður's
son – not his father's. In the film this is connected to the mother's
radical feminism and shame over his paternity, which form part of the
film's plot.[9] Some people have both a matronymic and a patronymic: for
example, Dagur Bergþóruson Eggertsson ("the son of Bergþóra and Eggert"),
the mayor of ReykjavÃ*k since 2014. Another example is the girl Blær
mentioned above: her full name is Blær Bjarkardóttir Rúnarsdóttir ("the
daughter of Björk and Rúnar").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_name#Matronymic_naming_as_a_choice

On 05/01/2021 11:36, NY wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message
...

They presumably hope HM will perform the opening ceremony when "One's"
line
is formally opened under its official brand. I assume the Elizabeth Line
name will be used once the central tunnel and new stations are opened,
even
if all the sections don't yet have through services. So that could happen
this autumn.

I wonder how many people will use the name "Elizabeth Line" in normal
parlance, compared with those that call it "Crossrail [Line]". I bet it
gets abbreviated to "Liz Line" ;-)

It has aircon, unlike the tube, so I'm calling it "Unsweaty Betty".

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1988 - Death Is Eeklo

On 05/01/2021 00:13, Recliner wrote:
The official version is up:
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/standard-tube-map.pdf

The trams fare zone makes a right mess of the zones in south London. It
looks like zone 5 is inside zone 4 around Sutton. It was a while before I
noticed the "London Trams fare zone" label on the right to explain the
confusion. I can't remember where I saw it, but one version of the map used
a different colour for the tram zone, which was much clearer.

The London Rail and Tube[0] map does a less bad job by moving the Thameslink
Mitcham Junction station to the other side of the tram line, but still
suffers from the same problem of isolating small parts of fare zones at
South Wimbledon, West Croydon and Elmers End.

[0]
https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/London%20Rail%20and%20Tube%20QR%20Map%20December%2 02020(m).pdf

On 05/01/2021 22:28, Sam Wilson wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote:
On 05/01/2021 15:00, Sam Wilson wrote:
NY wrote:

Why *do* Americans insist on using their middle initials/names on official
documentation? Does "John H Smith" sound more impressive than "John Smith"?

Apparently it does. Harry S Truman was given his middle initial in order
to suggest a middle name that he didn’t actually have.


Leading to this endless debate, which helps to keep Wikipedia editors
and such like from wandering the streets:
https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/educat...-s-truman-name

:-)

Sam

Perhaps both are correct. The full name is Harry S Truman. Like all
names, the middle one can be abbreviated to its initial plus a dot:
Harry S. Truman.