"Jonn Elledge" wrote in message
...

Not necessarily - have you ever seen the North Peckham
estate? By all accounts five years ago it was a complete
no go area. Now it's fairly neat and well looked after low
rise housing. If you give people something to take
pride in, they will.

How can you take pride in something that was given to you?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Jonn Elledge" wrote in message
...

Not necessarily - have you ever seen the North Peckham
estate? By all accounts five years ago it was a complete
no go area. Now it's fairly neat and well looked after low
rise housing. If you give people something to take
pride in, they will.

How can you take pride in something that was given to you?


Linguistic paradox notwithstanding, but I stand by my point - that tenants
are more likely to look after something that looks okay to start with. I
suspect it's party to do with the fact that in low rise housing, everyone
has their own patch and there are less communal areas that noone feels a
responsibility for.

Jonn

Pardon my ignorance but just what is a "sink estate"?

Thanks.


"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Jeremy Parker" wrote in message
...
"John Rowland" wrote

IMO every sink estate should be opened up to traffic,

They are doing just that, apparently, here in the
London borough of Barnet, on the Grahame Park
estate, in Colindale, on the site of the old Hendon
Aerodrome. I don't know how sinkish it is, but the
fact that it is being "regenerated" probably says something.

In 1979 or so I explored the entire bus network of London, and came to the
conclusion that Quakers Course in Grahame Park was the No 1 worst place in
London.

The sort of regeneration you are describing is a much more expensive and
disruptive process that involves demolishing all of the large blocks of
flats and replacing them with houses and small blocks of 6 flats or so,
with
lots of new dead end roads. This is being done on the periphery of the GP
estate and will presumably spread to the core. I don't know how successful
it will be in the long term - a resident of the similar new estate built
on
the site of the old Lordship Lane Lido in Tottenham told me "it was
beautiful when we moved in, but it's heartbreaking to see what some of the
residents have done to it."

Incidentally, I recently noticed that the regeneration of the Taylors Lane
area of Harlesden has involved removing the entire road network of recent
years and reinstating the road positions and road names which existed in
the
1950s. Smegging nanobots!

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In message
ble.rogers.com, at
02:02:27 on Wed, 1 Sep 2004, David Fairthorne
remarked:
Pardon my ignorance but just what is a "sink estate"?

A run-down council estate where very few of the residents have jobs, and
where there is a very high proportion of "problem" families.
--
Roland Perry

"David Fairthorne" wrote in message
t.cable.rogers.com...

Pardon my ignorance but just what is a "sink estate"?

"You don't wanna go there!"

Some people swim. Some people sink. People who sink end up in the sink
estates.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

John Rowland wrote:
"David Fairthorne" wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but just what is a "sink estate"?

"You don't wanna go there!"

Some people swim. Some people sink. People who sink end up
in the sink estates.

Some of the people who sink _were_ swimming, and may even be
still trying; but conditions r just too hostile for them.
And no doubt being on a sink estate doesn't help. :-/

ObTransport: the Rotherhithe tunnel -- narrow and windy?

#Paul

In article , Martin Rich
writes
The village I live in is a mid-70s creation. It consists of a loop road
with lots of multi-branch cul-de-sacs stretching inwards. Between them
is a network of footpaths converging on an L-shaped "spine path" with
the village shops at the apex. The paths get plenty of use for walking
and cycling, and *do* form "attractive green lanes".

This sounds as though it's more influenced by the garden city
approach, which placed some emphasis on including footpaths between
roads, than by the notion of segregating pedestrians and vehicles at
different levels.

There's no separate levels within the village itself, no. As to
influence, I believe it's called something like the "McNaughten design".

Though it also sounds as though the planners sought
to offer separate pedestrian and vehicle routes between houses and
shops.

Indeed, it was claimed that all schoolchildren could get to school
without crossing *any* road (though usually they'd have to walk along
the pavement at the side of a road for some distance before reaching a
separate path). The eventual layout has a couple of situations where
this isn't quite true.

I'm drafting this off-line so can't easily check, but seem to remember
that the func-junc proposal included draconian fines for pedestrians
who strayed onto the roadway for vehicles. I'm guessing that this
isn't a feature of your village :-)

Indeed not.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

--- wrote ...

ObTransport: the Rotherhithe tunnel -- narrow and windy?


Is that "windy" meaning it winds and twists and turns?
Or meaning there's a lot of wind blowing through it?
:-)

Thanks for your explanations of "sink estates".

When I asked about rental council housing (about 1970) I was told that there
was a 25 year waiting list and I must already live in the area. So it must
have been quite an achievement to qualify. Unfortunately I was unable to
wait.

It was be possible to cross the river on foot by the Rotherhithe tunnel by
using the stairs on each side of the river. It was noisy, especially near
sharp bends where tires scraped against the sidewalks. So I would say
"narrow and winding".

David.


wrote in message
...
John Rowland wrote:
"David Fairthorne" wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but just what is a "sink estate"?

"You don't wanna go there!"

Some people swim. Some people sink. People who sink end up
in the sink estates.

Some of the people who sink _were_ swimming, and may even be
still trying; but conditions r just too hostile for them.
And no doubt being on a sink estate doesn't help. :-/

ObTransport: the Rotherhithe tunnel -- narrow and windy?

#Paul

David Fairthorne wrote:
wrote:
ObTransport: the Rotherhithe tunnel -- narrow and windy?
[...]

It was be possible to cross the river on foot by the Rotherhithe tunnel by
using the stairs on each side of the river. It was noisy, especially near
sharp bends where tires scraped against the sidewalks. So I would say
"narrow and winding".

It looks like it still is, in principle -- there are footpath-like
(er) "footpaths" on either side of the roads through it. But I
really wouldn't fancy trying to walk it, unless for some reason I
felt myself particularly resistant to exhaust fumes.

And I agree "winding" is better than "windy"; the difference between
"windy" (winding) and "windy" (breezy) is clear when spoken, but
non-existant when written.

#Paul