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Old October 12th 04, 03:16 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default A Moorgate to London Bridge Tunnel (Old chestnut)

If the Bank of England sacrificed its vaults (Very little use for them
now, with the gold sold off) and Cannon Street St was put underground
(Plus a new tunnel under the Thames), would a tunnel connecting
Moorgate and London Bridge be feasible? Or do the tube lines around
there make it impossible?

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Old October 12th 04, 03:49 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default A Moorgate to London Bridge Tunnel (Old chestnut)


--- Jim Brown said:

If the Bank of England sacrificed its vaults (Very little use for
them now, with the gold sold off) and Cannon Street St was
put underground (Plus a new tunnel under the Thames), would
a tunnel connecting Moorgate and London Bridge be feasible?
Or do the tube lines around there make it impossible?


Interesting idea, Jim... There's also the problem of the slope down
from the high-level platforms at London Bridge to below the level of the
river bed. Especially since the line also has to curve from east-west
to north-south as it drops.



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Old October 12th 04, 04:07 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default A Moorgate to London Bridge Tunnel (Old chestnut)

Solar Penguin wrote:
--- Jim Brown said:


If the Bank of England sacrificed its vaults (Very little use for
them now, with the gold sold off) and Cannon Street St was
put underground (Plus a new tunnel under the Thames), would
a tunnel connecting Moorgate and London Bridge be feasible?
Or do the tube lines around there make it impossible?



Interesting idea, Jim... There's also the problem of the slope down
from the high-level platforms at London Bridge to below the level of the
river bed. Especially since the line also has to curve from east-west
to north-south as it drops.


Surely the way to make this work is to build new tube-level platforms at
Cannon St and London Bridge, and break the surface east of London
Bridge? Of course that would increase your price by just a few quid.

Robin

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Old October 12th 04, 04:49 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default A Moorgate to London Bridge Tunnel (Old chestnut)

Jim Brown wrote:
If the Bank of England sacrificed its vaults (Very little use for them
now, with the gold sold off) and Cannon Street St was put underground
(Plus a new tunnel under the Thames), would a tunnel connecting
Moorgate and London Bridge be feasible? Or do the tube lines around
there make it impossible?


I seem to recall that in the post war plans for Londons Transport, one
of the new lines to be built was an extension of the Northern City line
from Moorgate, through the City and to new underground platforms at
London Bridge and linking with the Crystal Palace (High Level) branch
line of the SR.
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Old October 12th 04, 10:10 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default A Moorgate to London Bridge Tunnel (Old chestnut)


"Jim Brown" wrote in message
om...
If the Bank of England sacrificed its vaults (Very little use for them
now, with the gold sold off) and Cannon Street St was put underground
(Plus a new tunnel under the Thames), would a tunnel connecting
Moorgate and London Bridge be feasible? Or do the tube lines around
there make it impossible?


This is highly speculative and I'm sure the engineering feats involved
would be considerable, but how about connecting the Northern City / WAGN
line with the Thameslink spur into Moorgate, and restoring the 3rd curve at
Farringdon Junction making it a triangular junction again. Would create
more direct North-South journey possibilities without building a second
tunnel. However after Thameslink 2000 is complete this might prove rather
superfluous anyway as there will be a direct route from the ECML through the
new Kings Cross Thameslink station and on to Farringdon. It seems a shame
to abandon the Moorgate Thameslink route though.

Andrew



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Old October 13th 04, 07:06 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default A Moorgate to London Bridge Tunnel (Old chestnut)

In message , at 22:10:48 on Tue,
12 Oct 2004, Andrew remarked:

It seems a shame to abandon the Moorgate Thameslink route though.


But it has to be closed to be able to extend the platform at Farringdon.
Of course, a "Grand Plan" could also include rebuilding that station to
reconfigure all the various junctions and level changes.
--
Roland Perry
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Old October 13th 04, 07:52 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default A Moorgate to London Bridge Tunnel (Old chestnut)

John Ruddy wrote in message ...
Jim Brown wrote:
If the Bank of England sacrificed its vaults (Very little use for them
now, with the gold sold off) and Cannon Street St was put underground
(Plus a new tunnel under the Thames), would a tunnel connecting
Moorgate and London Bridge be feasible? Or do the tube lines around
there make it impossible?


I seem to recall that in the post war plans for Londons Transport, one
of the new lines to be built was an extension of the Northern City line
from Moorgate, through the City and to new underground platforms at
London Bridge and linking with the Crystal Palace (High Level) branch
line of the SR.


There were certainly thoughts of extending from Moorgate to serve a
new station (i.e. not meeting up with other lines at Bank) near the
Bank of England itself many years ago, and a few yards of tunnel were
actually dug. This idea never really got past the drawing board stage,
though.

David E. Belcher
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Old October 13th 04, 08:17 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default A Moorgate to London Bridge Tunnel (Old chestnut)

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 08:06:35 +0100 someone who may be Roland Perry
wrote this:-

It seems a shame to abandon the Moorgate Thameslink route though.


But it has to be closed to be able to extend the platform at Farringdon.


It does not have to be closed. The plan is to close it because,
apparently, of a RI diktat regarding level platforms. The same RI
seem perfectly happy with passengers getting off trams in Manchester
and onto the ramp of the (few remaining) profiled platforms. I have
yet to hear of a huge number of injuries as a result of this.

Note that the RI are sometimes used as an excuse by some people on
the railways now. Their "diktat" may be nothing of the sort and the
problem is dumbed down railway staff. However, note the word
"sometimes", there are examples of a stupid approach by the RI (one
of which has been highlighted in Modern Railways).


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Old October 13th 04, 09:05 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default A Moorgate to London Bridge Tunnel (Old chestnut)

"Andrew" wrote in message ...
This is highly speculative and I'm sure the engineering feats involved
would be considerable, but how about connecting the Northern City / WAGN
line with the Thameslink spur into Moorgate, and restoring the 3rd curve at
Farringdon Junction making it a triangular junction again. Would create


I suspect the gradiants and curves required to join the 2 would be too severe
unless a new line split off from blackfriars since from Barbican you'd have
to drop about 20 metres and do a 90 degree turn in the space of 1/4 mile.

more direct North-South journey possibilities without building a second
tunnel. However after Thameslink 2000 is complete this might prove rather
superfluous anyway as there will be a direct route from the ECML through the
new Kings Cross Thameslink station and on to Farringdon. It seems a shame
to abandon the Moorgate Thameslink route though.


Don't worry , at the speed things are progressing I suspect it'll soon be
renamed Thameslink 3000.

B2003


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