Crossrail was mentioned in a speech by some nice old lady today,
apparently, so the Beeb have an article on it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...ts/4036327.stm

They say:

"It would allow trains serving the current Chiltern lines to run straight
into London and through to Essex."

That's wrong, right?

They also say:

"The second route would link Herts and Beds with Clapham Junction."

I take it they're referring to Crossrail 2; firstly, is that going to be
in the Crossrail bill, and secondly, is it going anywhere near
Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire? The last i heard was that it was going to
take over a bit of the Central Line, which i thought was in Essex. Or is
it all still up in the air? Is anyone even thinking about it seriously?

tom

--
REMOVE AND DESTROY

Tom Anderson wrote:
Crossrail was mentioned in a speech by some nice old lady today,
apparently, so the Beeb have an article on it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...ts/4036327.stm

They say:

"It would allow trains serving the current Chiltern lines to run straight
into London and through to Essex."

That's wrong, right?

Definitely wrong. The scheme used to "go" to Aylesbury but that branch
was dropped pretty soon after CLRL took the project on board a few years
ago.

They also say:

"The second route would link Herts and Beds with Clapham Junction."

I take it they're referring to Crossrail 2; firstly, is that going to be
in the Crossrail bill, and secondly, is it going anywhere near
Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire? The last i heard was that it was going to
take over a bit of the Central Line, which i thought was in Essex. Or is
it all still up in the air? Is anyone even thinking about it seriously?

Beds is probably wrong, although it's very much up in the air. Herts
could get Crossrail 2 services; it depends if they decide to run any up
the Lea Valley line. Clapham Junction would almost definitely get
Crossrail 2.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

"It would allow trains serving the current Chiltern lines to run straight
into London and through to Essex."

Definitely wrong. The scheme used to "go" to Aylesbury but that branch
was dropped pretty soon after CLRL took the project on board a few years
ago.

That's what i thought. That's really quite a while for the BBC to have
caught up!

"The second route would link Herts and Beds with Clapham Junction."

Beds is probably wrong, although it's very much up in the air. Herts
could get Crossrail 2 services; it depends if they decide to run any up
the Lea Valley line.

I hadn't heard about this idea (until i looked at your site, obviously).
It's pretty obvious - Stratford, Lea Valley Line (more or less unused for
passengers at the moment), Tottenham Hale, some set of stations to the
north (hopefully Stansted). Is it being seriously considered? For some
value of 'seriously' appropriate to the entirely hypothetical Crossrail 2,
of course.

Clapham Junction would almost definitely get Crossrail 2.

Almost? If it doesn't, someone's getting their legs broken.

Also, are they still going with this stupid tube gauge idea, or have they
seen sense?

tom

--
Optical illusions are terrorism of the mind.

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:


Tom Anderson wrote:


"It would allow trains serving the current Chiltern lines to run straight
into London and through to Essex."

Definitely wrong. The scheme used to "go" to Aylesbury but that branch
was dropped pretty soon after CLRL took the project on board a few years
ago.


That's what i thought. That's really quite a while for the BBC to have
caught up!

Well, it took them a *long* time to change the Southern stock photo
(although they did get to it in the end).

"The second route would link Herts and Beds with Clapham Junction."

Beds is probably wrong, although it's very much up in the air. Herts
could get Crossrail 2 services; it depends if they decide to run any up
the Lea Valley line.


I hadn't heard about this idea (until i looked at your site, obviously).
It's pretty obvious - Stratford, Lea Valley Line (more or less unused for
passengers at the moment), Tottenham Hale, some set of stations to the
north (hopefully Stansted). Is it being seriously considered? For some
value of 'seriously' appropriate to the entirely hypothetical Crossrail 2,
of course.

It would seem sensible for Crossrail 2 to take over the "one" services
from Stratford to Stansted and Hertford East starting next year, and
enhance them - especially given the desire to regenerate the Lea Valley.
A direct service from Stansted to the rest of Central London would also
be a bonus, if Stansted is to be expanded.

This is, of course, all entirely hypothetical. A route to Barnet and
Finchley via the closed Crouch End branch line from Finsbury Park has
even been proposed. They're just mulling over all the possible options
at the moment.

Clapham Junction would almost definitely get Crossrail 2.

Almost? If it doesn't, someone's getting their legs broken.

Quite. I only said "almost" because with these things (and with
politicians), you never know with 100% certainty that something is
definite until, for example, you see passengers get on a Crossrail 2
train at Clapham Junction and get successfully delivered to King's Cross...

Also, are they still going with this stupid tube gauge idea, or have they
seen sense?

Not sure about that. AIUI, the tube gauge route could include a useful
station at Piccadilly Circus which a mainline gauge route could not.
Then again, I don't think anyone's seriously proposing tube-gauge trains
to Stansted. It depends what branches they settle on and whether they
think Piccadilly Circus is a goal worth having for the sacrifice.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

"The second route would link Herts and Beds with Clapham Junction."

Beds is probably wrong, although it's very much up in the air. Herts
could get Crossrail 2 services; it depends if they decide to run any up
the Lea Valley line.

I hadn't heard about this idea (until i looked at your site,
obviously). It's pretty obvious - Stratford, Lea Valley Line (more or
less unused for passengers at the moment), Tottenham Hale, some set of
stations to the north (hopefully Stansted). Is it being seriously
considered? For some value of 'seriously' appropriate to the entirely
hypothetical Crossrail 2, of course.

It would seem sensible for Crossrail 2 to take over the "one" services
from Stratford to Stansted and Hertford East starting next year, and
enhance them - especially given the desire to regenerate the Lea Valley.
A direct service from Stansted to the rest of Central London would also
be a bonus, if Stansted is to be expanded.

Strongly agreed.

Of course, it would be yet another transport project which *just* misses
Hackney - after the ELL, stepping over the border into Dalston and then
fleeing to Islington, and the eternally promised but never delivered
prospect of Chelsea-Hackney.

This is, of course, all entirely hypothetical. A route to Barnet and
Finchley via the closed Crouch End branch line from Finsbury Park has
even been proposed.

Yes, because Finchley has such a shortage of rail links! And people in
Finsbury Park probably think trains are only a legend!

You know what really makes me want to cry? In Clapton, just up from where
i used to live, on the Upper Clapton Road, just before the corner shop
that's just down from the petrol station, there's a mural, presumably done
by local primary school children. It's charming, a really nice bit of twee
lefty local art/civicism stuff; it's virtually a regeneration area in its
own right. It's basically a painting of local life - tower blocks,
streets, parks, smiling, diverse Hackneyites, all that jazz. And you know
what's in the middle of it? A tube train. How they even knew what one
looked like escapes me.

Clapham Junction would almost definitely get Crossrail 2.

Almost? If it doesn't, someone's getting their legs broken.

Quite. I only said "almost" because with these things (and with
politicians), you never know with 100% certainty that something is
definite until, for example, you see passengers get on a Crossrail 2
train at Clapham Junction and get successfully delivered to King's
Cross...

!

Also, are they still going with this stupid tube gauge idea, or have they
seen sense?

Not sure about that. AIUI, the tube gauge route could include a useful
station at Piccadilly Circus which a mainline gauge route could not.
Then again, I don't think anyone's seriously proposing tube-gauge trains
to Stansted.

Oh, i don't know - if they take the Finsbury Park route down, they can
make it a spur on the Piccadilly, so people can go direct from Stansted to
Heathrow. That'll teach those air-travelling *******s a lesson!

It depends what branches they settle on and whether they think
Piccadilly Circus is a goal worth having for the sacrifice.

Is that a problem with mainline gauge per se, or with long platforms? It
seems hard to believe there isn't room for a mainline gauge station
anywhere in the area.

tom

--
Understand the world we're living in

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:


Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:


Tom Anderson wrote:


"The second route would link Herts and Beds with Clapham Junction."

Beds is probably wrong, although it's very much up in the air. Herts
could get Crossrail 2 services; it depends if they decide to run any up
the Lea Valley line.

I hadn't heard about this idea (until i looked at your site,
obviously). It's pretty obvious - Stratford, Lea Valley Line (more or
less unused for passengers at the moment), Tottenham Hale, some set of
stations to the north (hopefully Stansted). Is it being seriously
considered? For some value of 'seriously' appropriate to the entirely
hypothetical Crossrail 2, of course.

It would seem sensible for Crossrail 2 to take over the "one" services
from Stratford to Stansted and Hertford East starting next year, and
enhance them - especially given the desire to regenerate the Lea Valley.
A direct service from Stansted to the rest of Central London would also
be a bonus, if Stansted is to be expanded.


Strongly agreed.

Of course, it would be yet another transport project which *just* misses
Hackney - after the ELL, stepping over the border into Dalston and then
fleeing to Islington, and the eternally promised but never delivered
prospect of Chelsea-Hackney.

Crossrail 2 *is* really Chelsea-Hackney - just evolved. In fact, it is
generally proposed to serve Hackney (Central). The oft-proposed route is
from King's Cross to Dalston (either via Highbury & Islington or via
Angel and Essex Road), then following the North London Line route to
Stratford. If this route were chosen, then it would seem to be a long
way round to serve the Lea Valley line from Stratford, and instead a
branch might leave at Hackney to head for Stansted.

Still all hypothetical of course - although the route from King's Cross
to Dalston, Hackney and then Stratford seems to be a recurring theme.

The problem with using the NLL route between Highbury and Stratford is
that it would be difficult to replicate it in a tunnel thanks to the
CTRL, and sharing tracks with the NLL itself would be a performance
liability - especially given the heavy freight use, the 6tph proposed
for the NLL and the further 4tph from the ELLX. Running Crossrail 2 this
way could mean NLL services being cut back.

This is, of course, all entirely hypothetical. A route to Barnet and
Finchley via the closed Crouch End branch line from Finsbury Park has
even been proposed.


Yes, because Finchley has such a shortage of rail links! And people in
Finsbury Park probably think trains are only a legend!

The conversion of the Parkland Walk back into a railway is likely to
raise some eyebrows.

You know what really makes me want to cry? In Clapton, just up from where
i used to live, on the Upper Clapton Road, just before the corner shop
that's just down from the petrol station, there's a mural, presumably done
by local primary school children. It's charming, a really nice bit of twee
lefty local art/civicism stuff; it's virtually a regeneration area in its
own right. It's basically a painting of local life - tower blocks,
streets, parks, smiling, diverse Hackneyites, all that jazz. And you know
what's in the middle of it? A tube train. How they even knew what one
looked like escapes me.

I'd give Hackney a good chance of being included in Crossrail 2, should
it ever be built. After all, the GN will have Thameslink 2000 and the GE
will have Crossrail 1 - there's really nowhere else for CR2 to go!

(snip)
It depends what branches they settle on and whether they think
Piccadilly Circus is a goal worth having for the sacrifice.

Is that a problem with mainline gauge per se, or with long platforms? It
seems hard to believe there isn't room for a mainline gauge station
anywhere in the area.

I'm not sure. All I know is that for some reason, fitting platforms like
Crossrail 1's into the space at Picc Circ is a big issue. It would be a
shame if they couldn't come up with an alternative engineering solution,
as I believe a station at Picc Circ would offer significant congestion
relief to the Piccadilly Line (all those tourists coming off CTRL and
heading for the West End!).


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...
Crossrail was mentioned in a speech by some nice old lady today,
apparently, so the Beeb have an article on it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...ts/4036327.stm

They say:

"It would allow trains serving the current Chiltern lines to run straight
into London and through to Essex."

That's wrong, right?

They also say:

"The second route would link Herts and Beds with Clapham Junction."

I take it they're referring to Crossrail 2; firstly, is that going to be
in the Crossrail bill, and secondly, is it going anywhere near
Hertfordshire and Bedfordshire? The last i heard was that it was going to
take over a bit of the Central Line, which i thought was in Essex. Or is
it all still up in the air? Is anyone even thinking about it seriously?

tom


Just the BBC being as up-to-date and accurate as ever. Te same as they are
still insisting London has *two*area codes - "0207" or "0208" - instead of
the one 020 code for the whole city again.

Next year numbers in the range (020) - 3xxx xxxx will start being issued so
we can expect a panicky item or three from BBC London because suddenly
London's codes are changing again! We will hear "New code 0203 for
London......massive upheaval of London's phone numbers again"..........
*NOT* !! (just new numbers within the 020 single code).

Never accept anything you hear on the BBC as being the gospel, their
presenters and staff are ignorant and inaccurate.

Andy