One might think that a journey from the outskirts of London into the
centre would be quickest via a fast National Rail operator, like c2c vs
the District line from Upminster into the City.

I made a journey from High Wycombe into Kensington last week. Usually I
take a train into Marylebone, then either use Bakerloo+ Circle,
Bakerloo+Piccadilly or Circle from Edgware Road to reach Gloucester
Road, taking about an hour and a quarter in total.

However, this time, I only had a ticket between Wycombe and South
Ruislip, having used the Tube to reach Ruislip on the outward journey as
I started at Holland Park earlier in the day. The bonus of using the
Tube from South Ruislip is the cheap Oyster fare in the offpeak.

I definitely didn't expect to travel from Wycombe to Gloucester Road in
almost exactly an hour. It turns out that the Central is very quick from
Ruislip to Notting Hill Gate (23 mins), only a few minutes more than the
time it takes any Chiltern train stopping at Ruislip to reach Marylebone
(20 mins minimum). Obviously this is advantageous in reaching western areas.

This doesn't really apply to the faster trains which skip the Ruislips -
but even an ideal scenario with a non-stop train (usually taking around
33 mins) from Wycombe to Marylebone, followed by a 5-min walk and a
Circle journey from Edgware Road (13 mins) gets you to Gloucester Road
in 51 minutes.

Although my hour-only journey via the Central line involved just a
minute's wait at both South Ruislip and Notting Hill Gate, it also
involves a tortuous interchange at Notting Hill and, in this case, an
all-stations train from Wycombe (including a stop at the fantastic
Denham Golf Club).

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

One might think that a journey from the outskirts of London into the
centre would be quickest via a fast National Rail operator,
^^^^^^

I made a journey from High Wycombe into Kensington last week.
^^^^^^^^^^

Dave, are we going to have to go over this again?

I definitely didn't expect to travel from Wycombe to Gloucester Road in
almost exactly an hour.

Sit down with a map - a real map, not Mr Beck's filthy propaganda - and
have a look at the routes. The surprisingly fast route is also
surprisingly direct!

I take your point, though - by rights, a non-stop train from Ruislip to
Marylebone should be faster than a stopper to Notting Hill. The Central is
a bit of a speed demon, but i suspect the problem is really that the
Chiltern trains are a bit slow. I have no idea why; probably some line
speed thing, or else complications arising from congestion.

(including a stop at the fantastic Denham Golf Club).

Do expand on that.

tom

--
Michael Jackson had that idea back in the 80s. There was even a ride at Disneyland.

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:


One might think that a journey from the outskirts of London into the
centre would be quickest via a fast National Rail operator,
^^^^^^

I made a journey from High Wycombe into Kensington last week.
^^^^^^^^^^

Dave, are we going to have to go over this again?

Oh dear, not this old chestnut... you'll just have to accept that Dave's
definition of Central London is Zone 1 :-)

I'm having flashbacks to the whole "Metropolitan Kent" argument.

I definitely didn't expect to travel from Wycombe to Gloucester Road in
almost exactly an hour.

Sit down with a map - a real map, not Mr Beck's filthy propaganda - and
have a look at the routes. The surprisingly fast route is also
surprisingly direct!

Yes, should have thought of that... it happens to be extremely similar
to the route I take on the rare occasion that I drive it (Western Avenue
then either West Cross + Cromwell Road or Westway + Hyde Park).

But then again, the direct route is not necessarily the fastest
(especially when Chiltern makes a maximum of 4 intermediate stops, but
the Central makes 9).

I take your point, though - by rights, a non-stop train from Ruislip to
Marylebone should be faster than a stopper to Notting Hill. The Central is
a bit of a speed demon, but i suspect the problem is really that the
Chiltern trains are a bit slow. I have no idea why; probably some line
speed thing, or else complications arising from congestion.

Sometimes they sit outside Marylebone for a bit, but I don't think
that's the main problem - line speed between Northolt Junction and
Neasden seems to be a bit slow.

(including a stop at the fantastic Denham Golf Club).

Do expand on that.

The king of Chiltern's rural stations. I've never seen anyone get on or
off there - not even with any golf clubs. I reckon most people
travelling to Denham Golf Club do so by BMW rather than Chiltern Turbo
(although the latter has more plentiful room for one's clubs).

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote:

Do expand on that.

The king of Chiltern's rural stations. I've never seen anyone get on
or
off there - not even with any golf clubs. I reckon most people
travelling to Denham Golf Club do so by BMW rather than Chiltern
Turbo
(although the latter has more plentiful room for one's clubs).

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

It is eleven years since I last travelled the GC/GW joint. Is the
Pagoda still at Denham Golf Club?

A.

Adrian Auer-Hudson wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:


Do expand on that.

The king of Chiltern's rural stations. I've never seen anyone get on

or

off there - not even with any golf clubs. I reckon most people
travelling to Denham Golf Club do so by BMW rather than Chiltern

Turbo

(although the latter has more plentiful room for one's clubs).

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London


It is eleven years since I last travelled the GC/GW joint. Is the
Pagoda still at Denham Golf Club?

A.

Yup. I don't think anything's really changed at Denham Golf Club in the
last 100-ish years.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...
Adrian Auer-Hudson wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:


Do expand on that.

The king of Chiltern's rural stations. I've never seen anyone get on

or

off there - not even with any golf clubs. I reckon most people
travelling to Denham Golf Club do so by BMW rather than Chiltern

Turbo

(although the latter has more plentiful room for one's clubs).

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London


It is eleven years since I last travelled the GC/GW joint. Is the
Pagoda still at Denham Golf Club?

A.

Yup. I don't think anything's really changed at Denham Golf Club in the
last 100-ish years.

Not so!

The up platform used to be nearer to London than the down platform. About 40
years ago a new up platform was built opposite the down platform. That's why
there are three pagodas, not two. Some very important people have used it.
In fact you could have seen me get on and off there, but I have never played
a round of golf. However I regularly trespassed on the golf course, using it
as a short cut to the station. I am pleased that you recognise the
significance of this distinguished station.

Regards,
David Fairthorne


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

snip

http://therailwaystationgallery.foto...t/c126732.html
RPM has pictures of Denham Golf Club that show the pagoda.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:


One might think that a journey from the outskirts of London into the
centre would be quickest via a fast National Rail operator,
^^^^^^

I made a journey from High Wycombe into Kensington last week.
^^^^^^^^^^

Dave, are we going to have to go over this again?

Oh dear, not this old chestnut... you'll just have to accept that Dave's
definition of Central London is Zone 1 :-)

I'm having flashbacks to the whole "Metropolitan Kent" argument.

I think we did Essex a bit before that.

Still, correct definitions are important, and, moreover, this group
collects argumentative pedants like uk.local.london collects raving
lunatics.

(including a stop at the fantastic Denham Golf Club).

Do expand on that.

The king of Chiltern's rural stations. I've never seen anyone get on or
off there - not even with any golf clubs. I reckon most people
travelling to Denham Golf Club do so by BMW rather than Chiltern Turbo
(although the latter has more plentiful room for one's clubs).

Why on earth does this station exist? Why does it *still* exist?

tom

--
I see large and small words on this page, arranged in long rows separated by little dotty characters. Suspect written by little dotty characters, too. -- RonJeffries

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Dave Arquati wrote:

One might think that a journey from the outskirts of London into the
centre would be quickest via a fast National Rail operator,
^^^^^^

I made a journey from High Wycombe into Kensington last week.
^^^^^^^^^^

Dave, are we going to have to go over this again?

Oh dear, not this old chestnut... you'll just have to accept that Dave's
definition of Central London is Zone 1 :-)

I'm having flashbacks to the whole "Metropolitan Kent" argument.

I think we did Essex a bit before that.

I'm afraid for simplicity's sake, on my website, places are either
Central, North, East, Southeast, Southwest, West or Northwest, and if
they're not any of those, they're Outside. For my sanity, Outside means
outside the GLA boundary.

Still, correct definitions are important, and, moreover, this group
collects argumentative pedants like uk.local.london collects raving
lunatics.

I think uk.railway is worse (for pedants).

(including a stop at the fantastic Denham Golf Club).

Do expand on that.

The king of Chiltern's rural stations. I've never seen anyone get on or
off there - not even with any golf clubs. I reckon most people
travelling to Denham Golf Club do so by BMW rather than Chiltern Turbo
(although the latter has more plentiful room for one's clubs).

Why on earth does this station exist? Why does it *still* exist?

To be fair, it probably sees more use than Kempston Hardwick.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Tom Anderson wrote:

Why on earth does this station exist? Why does it *still* exist?

I suspect because the cost of all the procedure required to close it
would be greater than the cost of keepiiing it open. You don't save
much by closiing the odd unstaffed halt. The trains that Chiltern are
most concerned about the timing of, the Birmingham ones, don't stop
there.

What would make consderable savings would be to close lines; no need
for train crews, station or PW staff, no need for trains, or
maintainiing them, or fuel for them, track can be re-used elsewhere or
sold, land can be sold off etc. It is highly unlikely today that this
line would be proposed for closure, so major savings cannot be made.

Denham Golf Club station does very little good, but it also does little
harm, so it just stays as it is. If at some time it required major
expenditure to keep it open, then I suspect that it would close. To be
honest, it would be difficult to make a serious case against such
closure.