Here we go again, the whole clockwise section of the Circle &
H&C line was buggered up because of a single signal failure.
Just how hard is it to cope with a light stuck on red? Train gets
to signal , line controller gives clear if ok to move , train
moves across signal, resets , continues on journey. This isn't
bloody rocket science so can someone explain why LU goes to hell
in a handbasket as soon as something like this happens?? Its not
like it hasn't been happening for the last 120 years which to me
seems like a reasonable amount of time to sort out a practical
solution which doesn't involve trains going nowhere for 15 bloody
minutes. FFS , just how complex a procedure is it?

B2003

Boltar wrote:
Here we go again, the whole clockwise section of the Circle &
H&C line was buggered up because of a single signal failure.
Just how hard is it to cope with a light stuck on red? Train gets
to signal , line controller gives clear if ok to move , train
moves across signal, resets , continues on journey. This isn't
bloody rocket science so can someone explain why LU goes to hell
in a handbasket as soon as something like this happens?? Its not
like it hasn't been happening for the last 120 years which to me
seems like a reasonable amount of time to sort out a practical
solution which doesn't involve trains going nowhere for 15 bloody
minutes. FFS , just how complex a procedure is it?

If the signal is on red because the track circuit shows the section of
track beyond it as occupied (which I believe is the a common reason for
a signal "stuck on red"), how would the line controller miles away from
the fault know that it's "OK to move"?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

a signal "stuck on red"), how would the line controller miles away from
the fault know that it's "OK to move"?

Well , just a shot in the dark here , but maybe they could keep tabs on
where the trains are? I mean that is their job, right? Unless the train
radio is for listening to Terry Wogan.

B2003

In effect you are right, the signaller will know when a train has left
the affected section and be able to authorise a train to pass the
affected signal BUT not over the train radio, BUT when passing a signal
failure red the train will then be stuck doing "a speed at which you can
stop short of any obstruction" in other words the train will be doing
under 10 mph (if you try to exceed 10mph the brakes will come on), 5mph
or less is more likely (There's an alert noise if you go over 7mph,
doing 5mph keeps the cab noise down!) this is for 2 correctly working
signals, if the next one is also failing (not uncommon) then the whole
process has to be started again.

That is why 1 signal failure can FUBAR the whole Met, Hot & Cold, &
Circle line.



Boltar wrote:
Here we go again, the whole clockwise section of the Circle &
H&C line was buggered up because of a single signal failure.
Just how hard is it to cope with a light stuck on red? Train gets
to signal , line controller gives clear if ok to move , train
moves across signal, resets , continues on journey. This isn't
bloody rocket science so can someone explain why LU goes to hell
in a handbasket as soon as something like this happens?? Its not
like it hasn't been happening for the last 120 years which to me
seems like a reasonable amount of time to sort out a practical
solution which doesn't involve trains going nowhere for 15 bloody
minutes. FFS , just how complex a procedure is it?

B2003

That it what I thought, air traffic controllers can manage it. They can
put a satalite on the moon of Jupiter without actually having to be
there to see it.

Kevin

In article .com,
Boltar writes
Just how hard is it to cope with a light stuck on red?

Firstly you need to determine why the signal is red - stuck train,
broken track, or failure of the signal system.

Secondly, if the signal protects something like points, you need to get
them secured before allowing trains to run over them.

Thirdly, the service is intensive enough that the delays in "tripping
by" can completely screw up timings, leaving trains and train crews in
the wrong place.

Fourthly, if the problem is trackside then someone needs to go and fix
it before the service will get back to normal. This requires stopping
trains while they're working on the particular bits of equipment.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

wrote ...

They can put a satalite on the moon of Jupiter

Wrong . . .

It was Saturn, not Jupiter.

A satellite is in orbit round something, not landed upon it.

On Thu, 26 May 2005 wrote:

That it what I thought, air traffic controllers can manage it. They can
put a satalite on the moon of Jupiter without actually having to be
there to see it.

A key feature of celestial bodies is that they are NOT UNDERGROUND, which
makes seeing what's going on in the vicinity of them rather easier.

I think a whizzy high-tech moving block system can avoid these problems,
though; the system would (or should) have a battery of redundant sensors
and communications links, so it can keep accurate tabs on every train at
all times.

tom

--
Punk's not sexual, it's just aggression.

In effect you are right, the signaller will know when a train has left
the affected section and be able to authorise a train to pass the
affected signal BUT not over the train radio, BUT when passing a signal
failure red the train will then be stuck doing "a speed at which you can
stop short of any obstruction" in other words the train will be doing
under 10 mph (if you try to exceed 10mph the brakes will come on), 5mph
or less is more likely (There's an alert noise if you go over 7mph,
doing 5mph keeps the cab noise down!) this is for 2 correctly working
signals, if the next one is also failing (not uncommon) then the whole
process has to be started again.

Sounds like the system needs to revised then, or perhaps put some
backup sensors in the system or perhaps the block the signal controlled
be taken over by another signal so you have a double sized block
allowing
trains to pass and allowing the duff signal to be taken out of service
and
repaired. Its not beyond the wit of man to come up with a solution that
doesn't involve incoveniencing thousands of people when you've had over
a century to think one up.

B2003

"Boltar" wrote ...

Its not beyond the wit of man to come up with a solution that
doesn't involve incoveniencing thousands of people when you've had over
a century to think one up.

The problem surely is not the whole of the last 100 years, but the last 5-10
when the press have become so obsessed with certain aspects of public safety
and the appearance of the compensation culture that these very stringent
measures have had to be adopted.

Blame the press, not LU.