"Chris" wrote in message
...
If you "find yourself stuck in a box junction" I would suggest you aren't
doing it right:
HC.150: "... You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is
clear."

You enter a junction and the lights turn red behind you. Just as this is
happening a string of pedestrians cross right in front of you. You stop to
avoid running them over, and now cannot proceed because traffic is flowing
across you. I would suggest that there can be situations where you can get
stuck in a box junction without having done anything wrong, and I hope that
this is taken in to account with the enforcement.

In article , McKev
says...

Get a ****in grip - dont you think that this govmt screws enough cash out of
us???

Domations to cameras are completely voluntary.

Sure, drivers dont always obey the rules and it is sad to see but to
penalise by cameras and fines....no ****in way.

It's called BREAKING THE LAW. Surely you believe that people who break
the law sgould be punished?




--
Conor

-You wanted an argument? Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse. You want room
K5, just along the corridor. Stupid git. (Monty Python)

"David Splett" wrote in message
...
"Chris" wrote in message
...
If you "find yourself stuck in a box junction" I would suggest you aren't
doing it right:
HC.150: "... You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is
clear."

You enter a junction and the lights turn red behind you. Just as this is
happening a string of pedestrians cross right in front of you. You stop to
avoid running them over, and now cannot proceed because traffic is flowing
across you. I would suggest that there can be situations where you can get
stuck in a box junction without having done anything wrong, and I hope
that this is taken in to account with the enforcement.

Likewise: You are following a car on the approach to a box junction at a T
junction with a minor road. You brake to create a gap that's at least as big
as the hatched area. When the car in front has moved far enough ahead of the
junction (on the far side) you set off to occupy the space that he has just
left. In the meantime, a car pulls out from the side road into the space,
leaving you stranded on the junction through no fault of your own.

I can think of several junctions on the Botley Road in Oxford where I've
been stuck for minutes on end because successive cars pull out from the side
road as the traffic ahead moves forwards, and a gap never exists beyond the
junction for me to pull into. I suspect that drivers think that the fact
that I'm waiting on the far side of the junction means that I'm waiting for
them rather than waiting until I can legally enter the hatched area. (It was
while I was waiting at one of these junctions that I witnessed the closest
near-miss that I've ever seen: a cyclist coming up behind me illegally
overtook me on the left and narrowly escaped being hit by an oncoming car
that was quite legitimately turning right across me into the side road.)

I'm in favour of box junction cameras, but they MUST be movie cameras to
show the events that led up to your being on the hatched area, so as to
decide whether you are guilty or not. Simply being caught on the junction,
with no opportunity to prove how you got there, is not sufficient.

John Rowland wrote:
Incidentally, at Palmers Green the North Circular is a dual carriageway, and
if you are crossing it on Green Lanes you cross two separate box junctions.
People turning right onto the NCR tend to queue over both boxes, but am I
right in thinking that legally they are only allowed to queue over the
second box? It takes fairly sharp eyes to even realise that there are two
box junctions rather than one, especially in the dark.

If I had my way they'd make that junction No-Right-Turn from all
directions. Works at the A502 junction and there are rarely major
hold-ups there.

In message , at 16:10:55 on Sun, 24 Jul 2005,
Nick Leverton remarked:
In article ,
Chris wrote:

HC.150: "... You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is
clear."

There's a nice illustrated copy of the box junctions section of the
Highway Code at http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.htm#150

Which shows a car waiting in the box, because the exit road to his right
is clear. But what happens when an oncoming car turns left and it's no
longer clear?
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 09:10:54 on
Mon, 25 Jul 2005, Chris Tolley remarked:
But while you are waiting to turn right, oncoming traffic
turns left and jams up the side road that was previously clear. You are
then stuck on the yellow box. This happens frequently at a particular
junction in Chiswick.

If this does indeed happen frequently, then it's time to make it into a
roundabout.

So that's the excuse you'd give to the court, is it?
--
Roland Perry

Conor wrote:
In article , McKev
says...

Get a ****in grip - dont you think that this govmt screws enough
cash out of us???

Domations to cameras are completely voluntary.

Sure, drivers dont always obey the rules and it is sad to see but to
penalise by cameras and fines....no ****in way.

It's called BREAKING THE LAW. Surely you believe that people who break
the law sgould be punished?

Not at every turn though Conor (for motoring) - what the **** kind of nation
are we coming to here?

McKev

PC Paul wrote:

I guess I'm one of the 'speeding mob' ;-)

I'd love it. If it was possible to have cameras for 'almost every' offence
then a lot of the dimwitted but always 'I'm below the limit so I'm safe'
drivers would rapidly be clobbered with dangerous driving, tailgating,
DWDCA, and the roads would clear up rapidly.

It's been said before and it always gets ignored but I'll try again.

If the limits were sensibly and consistently applied, and cameras were
really sited at dangerous spots not on clear dual carriageways, and most
importantly this was in addition to real traffic policing not instead of
it, most people here would not have a problem with Scameras..

We may have a 'problem' with these cameras, but it doesn't justify
breaking the law. Doing 80mph along a road is illegal whether there's
a camera or not! The sad thing is that the country is full of people
who have no respect for the law.

In article . com,
"Peter" wrote:

PC Paul wrote:

I guess I'm one of the 'speeding mob' ;-)

I'd love it. If it was possible to have cameras for 'almost every' offence
then a lot of the dimwitted but always 'I'm below the limit so I'm safe'
drivers would rapidly be clobbered with dangerous driving, tailgating,
DWDCA, and the roads would clear up rapidly.

It's been said before and it always gets ignored but I'll try again.

If the limits were sensibly and consistently applied, and cameras were
really sited at dangerous spots not on clear dual carriageways, and most
importantly this was in addition to real traffic policing not instead of
it, most people here would not have a problem with Scameras..

We may have a 'problem' with these cameras, but it doesn't justify
breaking the law. Doing 80mph along a road is illegal whether there's
a camera or not! The sad thing is that the country is full of people
who have no respect for the law.

Amen! :-)

--
Mark Foster, Brighton, Sussex, UK
E-mail:
PGP Fingerprint: 3342 C02C 7BE8 3FE4 AAC5 8BB2 03B7 9263 DDF2 04C1
--------------------------------------------------
"There are no such useless words as...'I didn't have a chance.'"
[Driving, HMSO]

Chris Tolley wrote:
On 24 Jul 2005 07:31:51 -0700, Mizter T wrote:

I live near a box junction that's on a main road where I often turn
right. If I was to stay out of the yellow box then I'd block all the
traffic behind me (on a major road), the vast majority of which is
carrying straight on over the junction. So I stop in the middle of
the junction, waiting for a gap in the oncoming traffic so I can
execute my right turn, and leaving the route clear for vehicles
behind me to continue straight over. Before reading this, I always
thought I was technically in the wrong, but it'd appear not.

No, you're in the right in the circumstance you describe.

Thanks. Perhaps I need to review the Highway Code and see what else I'm
unaware of!