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Old April 29th 06, 02:46 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:56:06 -0500, Tristán White wrote in
45, seen in
uk.transport.buses:

I mean, surely you have to have a disability that will impair your
ability to travel?


Why not ask TfL what counts instead of assuming that only what you
believe should count actually does?
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Old April 29th 06, 06:31 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

Ross typed


On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:56:06 -0500, Tristán White wrote in
45, seen in
uk.transport.buses:


I mean, surely you have to have a disability that will impair your
ability to travel?


Why not ask TfL what counts instead of assuming that only what you
believe should count actually does?


or even look at the Freedom Pass website??

--
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Old April 29th 06, 07:53 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

In message 45,
Tristán White writes

Oh, true. But surely having dyslexia is not enough to qualify you for
free travel on tubes and buses?


I don't think anyone is suggesting that it is. The information on the
Freedom Pass website (and its link to the dft website) indicate that the
learning disability needs to be quite seve "difficulty in learning
new skills ... may be unable to cope independently" etc.

--
Paul Terry
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Old April 29th 06, 09:17 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:42:03 -0500, Tristán White wrote:

Yesterday, the youth in question was in the queue in front of me, which is
how I saw it said "F'DOM PASS" or some such thing on the display.


My daughters' uncle used to be a London bus driver, and he said that asking
to check everyone's pass just gets you aggro. He said they can get on with
a dry cleaning receipt as far as he's concerned.
--
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Old April 30th 06, 10:30 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

When a friend of mine was a conductor for London Northern/MTL London
Northern at HT in the late 90s, he said it seemed half the 30/40-plus
male population of Camden was travelling on Freedom passes, allegedly
for being being HIV+. At that time the condition was deemed to lead to
death within around 10 years, so simply being diagonised HIV+ warranted
being issued a Freedom Pass, regardless of whether the person had
developed full-blown Aids or ever would do.

I would assume any stolen Freedom passes would be used on the
Underground, where there is next to no chance of any ID card inspection.



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Old May 1st 06, 10:43 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

"
wrote in
oups.com:

SNIP
I would certainly ask to see the pass and photocard of somebody without
an obvious disability who I did not recognise. Having done this on
numerous occasions (usually with the response "nobody else has ever
asked to see it") I can honestly say that I have never experienced
"agro".

SNIP


If they don't have the photocard on them, do you deny them travel, or has
that never happened?
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Old May 1st 06, 10:56 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked



"
wrote in message
oups.com
Martin Clark wrote:
Tristán White wrote...

Do you have any evidence that fraud IS happening on a
massive scale or are you just making assumptions?
--
Martin Clark


In Milton Keynes disabled passes are issued by the
Council following completion of a form by a Registered
Medical Practioner.

Most disabled people who use the buses tend to do so
quite frequently, and are recognised by regular drivers.


Irrelevant. When you get on a bus, you either (a) pay the fare, or (b)
show a valid pass of some description. The only time it is acceptable for
anyone to get on a bus without showing a pass is when they are (a) a
company inspector on duty and in uniform, (b) a driver on his way to or
from the garage and in uniform or (c) a police officer in uniform. (In
this area, police are allowed free travel on or off duty, but if out of
uniform they must show their warrant card).

I would certainly ask to see the pass and photocard of
somebody without an obvious disability who I did not
recognise. Having done this on numerous occasions
(usually with the response "nobody else has ever asked to
see it") I can honestly say that I have never experienced
"agro".


It's very common here in the West Midlands. An awful lot of genuine pass
holders seem to get very affronted and annoyed when anyone actually wants
to *see* the things. Why..? What on earth do they think they're issued
with them for..? To keep in their pockets or bags and not show anybody..?!

I once had an amazing argument with a 90 year old man. He got on, flashed
what looked like it might possibly be a plastic cover of a pass, contained
within a tobacco tin, and headed up the bus to sit down. I called him back
and asked, in what I considered at least, to be a reasonable tone of
voice, to see his pass.

"Can't you ****** well see I'm old..?!" came the reply..!

"Yes, but that's not the point, I want to see your pass" says I.

He then proceeded to launch into a vitriolic attack on bus drivers in
general and me in particular, about how he'd fought in the war for his
country and who the devil did I think I was to question him etc. I tried
to explain that yes, I could see he was elderly, but that in itself did
not entitle him to free travel, he had to produce a valid pass. How was I
supposed to know he was a local resident..? I had never seen him before,
so it wasn't as if he was a regular.

It is interesting that the recent introduction of free
travel after 0930 and at weekends has encouraged more
drivers to expect passes to be produced. I well remember
that in Crawley, where pensioners have travelled free for
many years, the showing of passes was obligatory, to the
point where nobody would dream of trying to board a bus
without their pass.


You can always tell when it's nearing 0930 around here by the swarm of
pensioners around every bus stop ;-) For my part, I can honestly say that
when I come to retire, the *last* place you'll find me at 0930 in the
morning is at a bus stop ;-)

In a couple of years time when the free travel thing goes
countrywide, it remains to be seen whether the
requirement to produce a valid pass will become universal.


You mean that it *isn't* a requirement to produce a pass for travel in
some places..? Where..?

In spite of the foregoing, I am a Bus Driver and not a
Policeman / Inspector / Council Official. Provided the
pass looks genuine, it is not my place to question the
holders entitlement. That is for others to do. Whilst I
would refuse or withdraw pensioners pass presented by a
20 year old, a disabled pass may have been issued due to
some condition that I am certainly not qualified to
question. Therefore, the passenger would, subject to
holding a valid permit, be allowed to travel without
comment or question from me.


Which is perfectly correct, but the requirement to actually *show* the
pass is still there. Around here, that seems to be the factor that causes
the most "agro"..!

Ivor


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Old May 1st 06, 10:57 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked



"Tristán White" wrote in
message
. 109.145
"
wrote in
oups.com:

SNIP
I would certainly ask to see the pass and photocard of
somebody without an obvious disability who I did not
recognise. Having done this on numerous occasions
(usually with the response "nobody else has ever asked
to see it") I can honestly say that I have never
experienced "agro".

SNIP


If they don't have the photocard on them, do you deny
them travel, or has that never happened?


Why would they be carrying a pass that required a photocard *without* that
card..?

Ivor


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Old May 1st 06, 12:20 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
TKD TKD is offline
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Default Freedom passes unchecked


Do you have any evidence that fraud IS happening on a
massive scale or are you just making assumptions?
--
Martin Clark


In Milton Keynes disabled passes are issued by the
Council following completion of a form by a Registered
Medical Practioner.

Most disabled people who use the buses tend to do so
quite frequently, and are recognised by regular drivers.


Irrelevant. When you get on a bus, you either (a) pay the fare, or (b)
show a valid pass of some description. The only time it is acceptable for
anyone to get on a bus without showing a pass is when they are (a) a
company inspector on duty and in uniform, (b) a driver on his way to or
from the garage and in uniform or (c) a police officer in uniform. (In
this area, police are allowed free travel on or off duty, but if out of
uniform they must show their warrant card).


or (d) An 11-13 year old in London. This group can travel unaccompanied for
free without showing any kind of pass.




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