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Old April 28th 06, 03:44 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

Is it illegal for busdrivers to question passengers' disability (or
apparent lack thereof) when fit young men get on and use their orange
Freedom Pass on London buses?

I am gobsmacked how I have never seen any of the young men challenged ONCE
over their card, which is blatantly in it's orange "Freedom Pass" wallet,
and which shows "F'DOM PASS" or something like that on the display when
swiped on the bus. I've been watching.

Just yesterday, a fit athletic-looking young man jumped onto the bus, did
not appear to have any learning difficulties and certainly no physical
difficulties. He was listening to his iPod (so not deaf) and certainly
didn't appear to be blind - although his trousers were half-way down his
bum and his shoelaces were undone but that is apparently fashionable and
not a sign of being mentally challenged, or blind for that matter, although
it should be.

Another young athletic man in his late teens came on the bus a couple of
days ago.... Again, he was physically fit and appeared to be in all his
senses, although admittedly he was wearing a Manchester Utd baseball cap,
which may just have been a cunning disguise to make the bus driver think
that he was indeed possibly retarded. In which case, it worked.

What I want to know is, how come these things don't appear to be
challenged, but other things (eg showing out-of-date travelcard, PAYG out
of credit, 15 year old not having photocard, etc) do get checked.

I'm not saying that these Freedom Passes are necessarily all fraudulent
misappropriation of granny's card - and some of these young men may indeed
have a disability of their own that is not immediately apparent - but
surely drivers are allowed to check or ask, without fearing to cause
offence in any way? Or is it that they are not allowed to do this, because
of disability and equal opportunities or something. If so, this is wrong:
OK, the able-bodied aren't asked about their ability so you may wonder why
should the disabled be hassled. But the fact of the matter is, fraud is
happening, and bus-drivers should not be forbidden (if this is the case) of
asking why an apparently mentally and physically fit young man is using a
freedom pass.

Could someone explain more?


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Old April 28th 06, 04:53 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

Tristán White wrote:
Is it illegal for busdrivers to question passengers' disability (or
apparent lack thereof) when fit young men get on and use their
orange Freedom Pass on London buses?

I am gobsmacked how I have never seen any of the young men
challenged ONCE over their card, which is blatantly in it's orange
"Freedom Pass" wallet, and which shows "F'DOM PASS" or something
like that on the display when swiped on the bus. I've been watching.


[snip]
But the fact of the matter is,
fraud is happening, and bus-drivers should not be forbidden (if
this is the case) of asking why an apparently mentally and
physically fit young man is using a freedom pass.


All the driver needs to do is to ask to see the photocard. The Freedom
Pass is not valid unless the photocard is carried with it and bears the
same name as the pass. Drivers should not, in my view, get involved in
questioning passengers about their disabilities.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

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Old April 28th 06, 05:12 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

"Richard J." wrote in news:3Mr4g.60971$wl.47175
@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:

All the driver needs to do is to ask to see the photocard. The Freedom
Pass is not valid unless the photocard is carried with it and bears the
same name as the pass. Drivers should not, in my view, get involved in
questioning passengers about their disabilities.



But they question passengers about their age! Why shouldn't they question
them about their disability, if they appear to be completely of sane body
and mind?

It's not as though fraud is not happening on a massive scale!

Anyway, in the cases I've mentioned, the driver did not ask to see the
photocard even.
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Old April 28th 06, 05:16 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked


"Tristán White" wrote in message . 109.145...
"Richard J." wrote in news:3Mr4g.60971$wl.47175
@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:

All the driver needs to do is to ask to see the photocard. The Freedom
Pass is not valid unless the photocard is carried with it and bears the
same name as the pass. Drivers should not, in my view, get involved in
questioning passengers about their disabilities.



But they question passengers about their age! Why shouldn't they question
them about their disability, if they appear to be completely of sane body
and mind?

It's not as though fraud is not happening on a massive scale!

Anyway, in the cases I've mentioned, the driver did not ask to see the
photocard even.
--------------------------------------------------------------
What's in it for the driver?even if the passenger is fiddling his freedom pass,probably a smack in the face or worse,let Ken Nazi reinstate bus conductors.
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Old April 28th 06, 05:21 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

"Tristán White" wrote in message
. 109.145...
Is it illegal for busdrivers to question passengers' disability (or
apparent lack thereof) when fit young men get on and use their orange
Freedom Pass on London buses?

snip

What possible qualifications would a bus driver have to check a person's
health or disability. Or, why should he/she be expected to? Imagine "Excuse
ME young sir, can you show ME why you have this disabled pass? If not, GET
OFF THIS BUS!"
This is 2006, and there is so much corruption everywhere in England from the
top to the bottom. London, especially, reminds me of Tripoli in the '50's.
Don't let it bother you.

--
John the West Ham fan





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Old April 28th 06, 05:33 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london
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Default Freedom passes unchecked


"Scooter" Scooter @ Hooter wrote in message ...

"Tristán White" wrote in message . 109.145...
"Richard J." wrote in news:3Mr4g.60971$wl.47175
@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:

All the driver needs to do is to ask to see the photocard. The Freedom
Pass is not valid unless the photocard is carried with it and bears the
same name as the pass. Drivers should not, in my view, get involved in
questioning passengers about their disabilities.



But they question passengers about their age! Why shouldn't they question
them about their disability, if they appear to be completely of sane body
and mind?

It's not as though fraud is not happening on a massive scale!

Anyway, in the cases I've mentioned, the driver did not ask to see the
photocard even.
--------------------------------------------------------------
What's in it for the driver?even if the passenger is fiddling his freedom pass,probably a smack in the face or worse,let Ken Nazi reinstate bus conductors.
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Old April 28th 06, 05:39 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

In message . 145,
Tristán White writes

I'm not saying that these Freedom Passes are necessarily all fraudulent
misappropriation of granny's card - and some of these young men may indeed
have a disability of their own that is not immediately apparent


That could legitimately include unfitness to drive a motor vehicle
through a condition such as epilepsy (never apparent unless a fit
occurs) or a severe learning disability. Individual councils have the
power to grant freedom passes to other categories (drug or alcohol
dependency is not supposed to be a criterion, but I think it has been
used) although some, like Hackney, seem to have decided that they have
been issued too freely in the past.

None of that is to say that Freedom Passes may not being abused as much
as Disabled Parking Permits, but it must be almost impossible for a
driver to make any sort of check. Even the Freedom Pass website says
that photocards must be produced, if required to revenue inspectors - it
makes no mention of bus drivers.

So, it should be up to the (now very rarely seen) bus inspector to
follow-up any suspicious use of a freedom pass.
--
Paul Terry
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Old April 28th 06, 05:43 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

"Richard J." typed

All the driver needs to do is to ask to see the photocard. The Freedom
Pass is not valid unless the photocard is carried with it and bears the
same name as the pass. Drivers should not, in my view, get involved in
questioning passengers about their disabilities.


Agreed.
The passholder's doctor has to fill a complex form to allow a Freedom
Pass to be issued.

Forgery or theft are beyond a driver's job to detect, but checking
Photocards is simple enough.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.
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Old April 28th 06, 06:06 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

Tristán White wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in news:3Mr4g.60971$wl.47175
@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:


All the driver needs to do is to ask to see the photocard. The Freedom
Pass is not valid unless the photocard is carried with it and bears the
same name as the pass. Drivers should not, in my view, get involved in
questioning passengers about their disabilities.




But they question passengers about their age! Why shouldn't they question
them about their disability, if they appear to be completely of sane body
and mind?

It's not as though fraud is not happening on a massive scale!

Anyway, in the cases I've mentioned, the driver did not ask to see the
photocard even.



were you near enough to the driver to see if the passengers showed their
photocard with their pass? Or just presuming because the driver didn't
ask they didn't show one
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Old April 28th 06, 06:23 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.local.london,uk.transport.buses
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Default Freedom passes unchecked

In article . 145,
Tristán White wrote:
But they question passengers about their age! Why shouldn't they question
them about their disability, if they appear to be completely of sane body
and mind?


Because judging someone's age is within a drivers experience and competance;
but judging someone's disability isn't.

--
I don't play The Game - it's for five-year-olds with delusions of adulthood.


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