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Old July 29th 03, 02:13 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Can anyone out there, let me know where I can obtain copies of maps
that show all the twist and turns of the London Underground lines?

I often travel on the Northern (Bank) Line and it amazes me the how
the line twists, turns, dips etc. One dip is on the Northern
(Bank)northbound line between Angel and Kings Cross St Pancras. I like
it because it wakes me up before my stop. What causes such a dip?
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Old July 29th 03, 04:31 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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"Christine" wrote in message
...
Can anyone out there, let me know where I can obtain copies of maps
that show all the twist and turns of the London Underground lines?

I often travel on the Northern (Bank) Line and it amazes me the how
the line twists, turns, dips etc. One dip is on the Northern
(Bank)northbound line between Angel and Kings Cross St Pancras. I like
it because it wakes me up before my stop. What causes such a dip?


I have two maps from a while back that show the exact routes of the
Ungerground lines.

One is "London: Official Tourist Information" published by LT, reference FWT
12/79.

The other is "London Parking Guide", published in association with
Vauxhall/GM/Opel and NCP.


The first covers an area from Notting Hill to The Tower and Kentish Town to
Battersea. The second goes from Hammersmith to Stepney and Camden Road to
Battersea.

Neither map shows the gradients. There are two main reasons for changes of
gradient in the Underground: firstly, most stations are constructed with a
rising gradient on the approach (to help slow the train down) and a falling
gradient on the exit (to help the train accelerate); secondly some lines
(can't remember offhand which) change from having two tracks side by side to
one track above the other in places where the line passes along a road,
because it was cheaper to pass under the length of a road than to get a
"wayleave" to pass under buildings alongside the road, so one track will
climb quite abruptly on top of the other where a road narrows and then sink
down to the same level once the road is wide enough to take the two tracks
side by side again.


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Old July 29th 03, 05:26 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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"Richard J." wrote in message
...
Martin Underwood wrote:
"Christine" wrote in message
...
Can anyone out there, let me know where I can obtain copies of maps
that show all the twist and turns of the London Underground lines?
[...]


I have two maps from a while back that show the exact routes of the
Ungerground lines.

One is "London: Official Tourist Information" published by LT,
reference FWT 12/79.

The other is "London Parking Guide", published in association with
Vauxhall/GM/Opel and NCP.


I would be interested to know the precise route shown for the Piccadilly
line between South Kensington and Knightsbridge, specifically the two
double-bends east of South Kensington station. Can you describe the route
in relation to the roads above?


Certainly. Actually I do better than that. I've scanned that section and put
it on the web - 174KB. It's at
http://www.martinunderwood.f9.co.uk/kensington.jpg


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Old July 29th 03, 07:19 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Cast_Iron wrote:

[Knightsbridge to South Ken]

Hmm, interesting since the total running time is only 2 1/2 minutes.


At best, perhaps.

ISTR when I lived in that part of the world that the "train times"
posters implied a 4 minute time, which was rather in accordance with my
experience.

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Old July 29th 03, 07:47 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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James Farrar wrote:
Cast_Iron wrote:

[Knightsbridge to South Ken]

Hmm, interesting since the total running time is only 2
1/2 minutes.


At best, perhaps.

ISTR when I lived in that part of the world that the "train
times" posters implied a 4 minute time, which was rather in
accordance with my experience.


That was from the working timetable.




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Old July 29th 03, 08:40 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Cast_Iron wrote:
James Farrar wrote:

Cast_Iron wrote:

[Knightsbridge to South Ken]


Hmm, interesting since the total running time is only 2
1/2 minutes.


At best, perhaps.

ISTR when I lived in that part of the world that the "train
times" posters implied a 4 minute time, which was rather in
accordance with my experience.



That was from the working timetable.


....which has, at best, a vague resemblance to reality...

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Old July 29th 03, 09:32 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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James Farrar wrote:
Cast_Iron wrote:
James Farrar wrote:

Cast_Iron wrote:

[Knightsbridge to South Ken]


Hmm, interesting since the total running time is only 2
1/2 minutes.

At best, perhaps.

ISTR when I lived in that part of the world that the
"train times" posters implied a 4 minute time, which was
rather in accordance with my experience.



That was from the working timetable.


...which has, at best, a vague resemblance to reality...


I'm intrigued, in what way?


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Old July 29th 03, 09:51 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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"Richard J." wrote in message
...
Martin Underwood wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message
...


I would be interested to know the precise route shown for the
Piccadilly line between South Kensington and Knightsbridge,
specifically the two double-bends east of South Kensington station.
Can you describe the route in relation to the roads above?


Certainly. Actually I do better than that. I've scanned that section
and put it on the web - 174KB. It's at
http://www.martinunderwood.f9.co.uk/kensington.jpg


Thanks very much, Martin. Unfortunately, the route shown is not quite
accurate as it shows (eastbound) a left turn out of South Ken station,

then
a straight section, then another left turn and a right turn by Brompton
Oratory. Anyone who travels that line will know that the bends go
left-right-left-right with no straight section before the old Brompton

Road
station.

Your map looks like an updated version of my Bartholomew street atlas of
1956, which shows the same route. I was hoping to find a more accurate

one!
(However, this is the only mistake in the detailed routes in this atlas

that
I am aware of.)


I've checked the LT map that I mentioned. This is even worse: it doesn't
show the line as passing under Brompton Road at all - it passes to the east
of it, crossing under Beauchamp Place and then under Fulham Road / Brompton
Road. I think this map has rather a lot of artistic licence (more of a
diagram than an accurate map) - and it only shows bus routes and a *few*
other roads.

You're right about the map that I posted on the web - on closer examination
it says " Bartholomew MCMLXXXV" (ie 1985).


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Old July 29th 03, 10:33 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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"Lawrence Myers" wrote in message
...

When I was young I was told it was to dive under an underground river.
Don't know if this is true or not.


Thinking of the geography, and if the above is true, would that be the River
Fleet, which lent it's name to the original "Jubilee Line", as it was
intended to run past Fleet St. - and off eastwards - Fleet Street deriving
it's name from such river?

Just a thought .....

Matt @ Ealing.


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Old July 30th 03, 06:33 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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In article , Christine
writes
One dip is on the Northern
(Bank)northbound line between Angel and Kings Cross St Pancras. I like
it because it wakes me up before my stop.


"The original City & South London Line had a signal box at a location
below Weston Rise (then called Weston Street) and the line at this point
was built on a hump like the stations. When passing the signal box,
trains experience a sudden drop as they descend from the top of the
hump."

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/forum.htm#Dip

--
"It used to be that what a writer did was type a bit and then stare out of the
window a bit, type a bit, stare out of the window a bit. Networked computers
make these two activities converge, because now the thing you type on and the
window you stare out of are the same thing" - Douglas Adams 28/1/99.


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