Clive Page wrote:
On the other hand if you got a train which actually stopped at Elstree,
alighted for a moment, and then boarded the same train again, could you
claim to be making two separate journeys, each one not subject to the
evening peak restriction? I suspect that the train companies would
claim that this was just one journey not two

They probably will, but you can do what you like with a Zone 1-6
Travelcard, which is the part you would be using up to Elstree &
Borehamwood or Hadley Wood (GN) and whatever the boundary is on the
Hertford Loop.

If you step off and back on, you're now using the standard ticket and
are perfectly entitled to. It's silly having to do it, but First CANNOT
do a thing. They know it, but figure most people (i.e. Joe Public)
won't. For example, even if I told my parents such a trick, I know for
a fact they wouldn't do it because they'd feel guilty for being seen to
'beat the system'. It might also be rather inconvenient to do, yet if
you didn't, then they COULD excess you - assuming they were there to
see that you didn't get off and back on!

I doubt they can tighten up the rules either, unless they can suddenly
stop accepting travelcards.

Users with ordinary CDRs cannot use this 'trick' as I'm not sure you
can do a BOJ, but if you avoid the barriers (e.g. Finsbury Park and
nearly all the GN line) then I'd certainly not pay the extra unless
caught. There's no penalty, so why pay the extra if you don't have to?

I'm a commuter, paying £2500 a year, and I travel on either the 1753
or 1823 services from KGX and they're never so packed that FCC need to
implement such a silly policy for others. By rights I should support
it, but it seems many commuters think it's crazy too! If you have no
ticket at all, however, then I hope you get prosecuted!!

First.. they're certainly "transforming travel" alright!

Jonathan

DERWENT New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to
Cambridge
11 Jun 2006 18:19:50 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos


Jonathan Morris wrote:
If I buy three people a discounted travelcard with my Gold Card (and
their ticket is marked GOLDC), I wonder if they can travel with me
during the restricted evening period?

Logic says no, as it's an off peak ticket, but surely if they haven't
implicitly mentioned discounted/gold card tickets then they can't
enforce the ruling as it is technically a different ticket?

Is it not a Gold Card discounted off peak Travelcard? In which case you
could ask for a GC discounted peak Travelcard instead,

Can you get these? The local ticket machines I use don't have
discouted Peak Travelcards among the optiosn you ge when you press the
railcard button...

What do the Gold card T&Cs state?





PRAR
--
http://www.i.am/prar/ and http://prar.fotopic.net/
As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. --Dick Cavett
Please reply to the newsgroup. That is why it exists.
NB Anti-spam measures in force
- If you must email me use the Reply to address and not

Theo Markettos wrote:
Is it not a Gold Card discounted off peak Travelcard? In which case you
could ask for a GC discounted peak Travelcard instead, which would be valid.
(Just like you can buy Network Card discounted Standard Day Singles as well
as Cheap Day Singles, in some cases paying extra for no benefit) Or does
using a GC make it a different ticket type and so not a normal Travelcard at
all?

Yes it is an ordinary ticket with a discount, but as it's marked
differently then it may well be the case that they need to
*specifically* include it in their list of exclusions. It seems that
there are many other things that are open to interpretation.

Also, and this is rather silly and pedantic I know, but Gold Card
ticket holders must travel with me. So, I could possibly argue that I
am entitled to travel between 1630 and 1901, so why can't they? Why
should I now be restricted for my journey in the peak rate?

I know the honest answer is to buy the peak ticket, but I know that if
I go into London in the week (e.g. taking a day off), then there's no
way I'll know when I am going back home.

This is why I think such a move for First stinks! They say they do what
we want them to do, not what they think we want them to do - but I
don't remember asking for this? Does anyone else?

Jonathan

Jonathan Morris wrote:

I'm a commuter, paying £2500 a year, and I travel on either the 1753
or 1823 services from KGX and they're never so packed that FCC need to
implement such a silly policy for others. By rights I should support
it, but it seems many commuters think it's crazy too! If you have no
ticket at all, however, then I hope you get prosecuted!!

First.. they're certainly "transforming travel" alright!

Jonathan

I travelled on the 1823 a few weeks ago and this two-unit train
certainly wasn't busy. Far better would have been to ban certain busy
trains - e.g 1815 Cambridge and others which are already full to spread
the loadings.

The stupid thing now will be that the first few trains after 1900 will
be jam packed since they are only 4-coach e.g. 1906 Cambridge, 1906
Peterborough. I expect that the 8-coach 1915 Cambridge is also a
popular train already and so on. Similarly, many northbound Thameslink
services after 1900 are only 4 coach trains.

Are they going to change the stock diagrams to reflect this change? The
timetables do not appear to have changed. How can they predict which
services should be reduced in length?

Jonathan

PRAR wrote:
DERWENT New evening ticket restrictions from King's Cross to
Cambridge
11 Jun 2006 18:19:50 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos


Jonathan Morris wrote:
If I buy three people a discounted travelcard with my Gold Card (and
their ticket is marked GOLDC), I wonder if they can travel with me
during the restricted evening period?

Logic says no, as it's an off peak ticket, but surely if they haven't
implicitly mentioned discounted/gold card tickets then they can't
enforce the ruling as it is technically a different ticket?

Is it not a Gold Card discounted off peak Travelcard? In which case you
could ask for a GC discounted peak Travelcard instead,

Can you get these? The local ticket machines I use don't have
discouted Peak Travelcards among the optiosn you ge when you press the
railcard button...

What do the Gold card T&Cs state?





PRAR
--

Peak day travelcards cannot be discounted by any railcard even if used
off-peak

On 11 Jun 2006 12:13:40 -0700, Jonathan Morris wrote:

Is it not a Gold Card discounted off peak Travelcard? In which case you
could ask for a GC discounted peak Travelcard instead, which would be valid.
(Just like you can buy Network Card discounted Standard Day Singles as well
as Cheap Day Singles, in some cases paying extra for no benefit) Or does
using a GC make it a different ticket type and so not a normal Travelcard at
all?

Yes it is an ordinary ticket with a discount, but as it's marked
differently then it may well be the case that they need to
*specifically* include it in their list of exclusions.

I don't think so. It's the same ticket type; you just pay a different
price for it.

Also, and this is rather silly and pedantic I know, but Gold Card
ticket holders must travel with me. So, I could possibly argue that I
am entitled to travel between 1630 and 1901, so why can't they? Why
should I now be restricted for my journey in the peak rate?

I know the honest answer is to buy the peak ticket, but I know that if
I go into London in the week (e.g. taking a day off), then there's no
way I'll know when I am going back home.

Buy the cheaper ticket. If you need to return on a "peak" train,
excess the ticket to the more expensive type.

Clive Page wrote:

The small print has been fairly carefully worded to restrict travel
according to the journey you are making, not just the type of ticket you
use.

....which, AIUI, they are not allowed to do, because restrictions are
specified by flow and train. It's just a simplified wording, just like
the ones on the IC TOCs are for SVRs.

Neil

In message .com, at
13:52:39 on Sun, 11 Jun 2006, remarked:
I travelled on the 1823 a few weeks ago and this two-unit train
certainly wasn't busy. Far better would have been to ban certain busy
trains - e.g 1815 Cambridge and others which are already full to spread
the loadings.

The stupid thing now will be that the first few trains after 1900 will
be jam packed since they are only 4-coach e.g. 1906 Cambridge, 1906
Peterborough. I expect that the 8-coach 1915 Cambridge is also a
popular train already and so on. Similarly, many northbound Thameslink
services after 1900 are only 4 coach trains.

Are they going to change the stock diagrams to reflect this change? The
timetables do not appear to have changed. How can they predict which
services should be reduced in length?

FCC probably think they don't have any spare stock. So to strengthen
something like the 1906 will require removing it from elsewhere. Would
they really reduce the length of a peak train like the 1823?
--
Roland Perry

wrote:
I travelled on the 1823 a few weeks ago and this two-unit train
certainly wasn't busy. Far better would have been to ban certain busy
trains - e.g 1815 Cambridge and others which are already full to spread
the loadings.

The 1753 should be 8-car, and the 1823 will be 6-car. If there's any
fault, they'll bring out a 4-car train from Hornsey and that can get a
little crowded - but people are often told that first class is
declassified (and even if they're not toldt, it always is on any 23/53
train).

These services also stop at places like New Barnet or Oakleigh Park -
so you can still step off and back on. Thus, these services can't
restrict Zone1-6 Travelcard users anyway!

Are they going to change the stock diagrams to reflect this change? The
timetables do not appear to have changed. How can they predict which
services should be reduced in length?

It's a tough one. I guess the restrictions MIGHT help these services,
but as I don't use them I won't know until anyone reports back on here
later this week. Mind you, it may take a while before people actively
avoid the peak services, as they either won't know or will pay the
extra (but re-consider for future travel).

Jonathan

On 12 Jun 2006 03:47:08 -0700, "Jonathan Morris"
wrote:

The 1753 should be 8-car, and the 1823 will be 6-car. If there's any
fault, they'll bring out a 4-car train from Hornsey and that can get a
little crowded - but people are often told that first class is
declassified (and even if they're not toldt, it always is on any 23/53
train).

I queried FCC on exactly this point a month ago, referencing the 1753.
Their reply made it clear that if I used the first class section to my
local station (Oakleigh Park) without paying a first class fare, I
would be liable to a penalty fare. Regrettably, the reply failed to
tell me what the first class fare is (and I did ask).

Regards,

Clive
--
Clive R Robertson -- AS/400 Programmer.

Webmaster of http://www.osterleypark.org.uk/ -- this describes
a beautiful National Trust property in West London.