Paul Weaver wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:
No - it's not technically as Richard said. All that is certain is that
for certain pairs of stations, journeys are defined as using Zone 1 even
if a route avoiding Z1 would be possible. Earl's Court to Notting Hill
Gate is certainly one of those cases. I have also tried Shepherd's Bush
(Central) to Parsons Green, which is also defined as via Zone 1.

But what if touch the platform validator at ealing broadway en-route?

Good point - but since that is intended for passengers transferring to
and from FGW, you might just end up with an unresolved journey (i.e.
Earl's Court to Ealing Bdy plus Unresolved - NHG) and would be charged
twice.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On 15 Jun 2006 04:55:26 -0700, "Paul Weaver"
wrote:

Richard M Willis wrote:
That's the reason it's not being rolled-out so quickly onto NR: they
are waiting for OysterNextGen where the cards can be read at a distance of
several meters without a touch in/out and without the passenger knowing
they've been read. In this way, they can check for invalid routings if
wanted.

Until the oyster card is kept in a wallet with tin foil in it.

And always make sure it is shiney-side outwards.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In article , Richard M
Willis writes
That's the reason it's not being rolled-out so quickly onto NR: they
are waiting for OysterNextGen where the cards can be read at a distance of
several meters without a touch in/out and without the passenger knowing
they've been read. In this way, they can check for invalid routings if
wanted.

That's nonsense.

The power requirements to get back a readable signal from the card are
going to be enormous - it's something like inverse sixth power (I forget
why, but it was explained to me once).

And suppose you do that at a busy platform. How on earth is the system
going to discriminate between the 100 or so Oysters that respond?

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In message , Clive D. W. Feather
writes
In article , Richard M
Willis writes
That's the reason it's not being rolled-out so quickly onto NR: they
are waiting for OysterNextGen where the cards can be read at a distance of
several meters without a touch in/out and without the passenger knowing
they've been read. In this way, they can check for invalid routings if
wanted.

That's nonsense.

The power requirements to get back a readable signal from the card are
going to be enormous - it's something like inverse sixth power (I
forget why, but it was explained to me once).

And suppose you do that at a busy platform. How on earth is the system
going to discriminate between the 100 or so Oysters that respond?

It would also have implications for people carrying but not *using*
their Oystercards, eg when I have a paper Travelcard and am not using
the Oyster PrePay in my pocket. I sometimes do this if I've travelled
to London on a train+Travelcard ticket or if using NR services within
London. I'm sure there are other reasons, too.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Ian Jelf typed

It would also have implications for people carrying but not *using*
their Oystercards, eg when I have a paper Travelcard and am not using
the Oyster PrePay in my pocket. I sometimes do this if I've travelled
to London on a train+Travelcard ticket or if using NR services within
London. I'm sure there are other reasons, too.

Here's one.

I have a Disabled Person's Freedom Pass, with which I travel.

I keep a Prepay Oyster in my bag to lend to friends from out of town. I
don't want deductions from that Oyster *unless* someone else is using
it.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 20:04:06 +0100, Dave Arquati wrote:

No - it's not technically as Richard said. All that is certain is that
for certain pairs of stations, journeys are defined as using Zone 1 even
if a route avoiding Z1 would be possible. Earl's Court to Notting Hill
Gate is certainly one of those cases. I have also tried Shepherd's Bush
(Central) to Parsons Green, which is also defined as via Zone 1.

But what if touch the platform validator at ealing broadway en-route?

Good point - but since that is intended for passengers transferring to
and from FGW, you might just end up with an unresolved journey (i.e.
Earl's Court to Ealing Bdy plus Unresolved - NHG) and would be charged
twice.

I'm not sure that's what would happen. The logic used by some
validators is a bit more complicated - they can either act as entry,
exit, or neither, depending on what's already on the card (and perhaps
what validators, if any, you touch later on).

The notice by the platform validators usually just asks all passing
PAYG users to touch their card on the reader, regardless of whether or
not they're starting/ending the journey, so it "ought" to do the right
thing in all scenarios. But I'm not sure if this one will be catered
for.

My bet is that you'd simply end up with an Earl's Court to NHG journey
at the usual (Z1) fare. But I think we'll only know for sure if
someone actually goes out and tries it...

Transport for London created a system that by its nature lends itself
to exploitation by opportunists, ie fare evaders!

This isn't Japan or Singapore. People will have a go if they feel they
can gain an advantage.

The only advantage is that drivers carry less cash and much the money
paid on the spot for a journey is left in a machine by the bus stop.

Not too sure, but the amount of incidents of people being done for fare
evasion is setting a mini record.

Well done, TfL............

Me
are waiting for OysterNextGen where the cards can be read at a distance
of
several meters without a touch in/out and without the passenger knowing
they've been read. In this way, they can check for invalid routings if
wanted.

CDWF That's nonsense.
No kidding.

The power requirements to get back a readable signal from the card are
going to be enormous - it's something like inverse sixth power (I forget
why, but it was explained to me once).

And suppose you do that at a busy platform. How on earth is the system
going to discriminate between the 100 or so Oysters that respond?

Think your sarcasm detector has had a bad day.

Richard [in SG19]



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Peter Smyth wrote:
If I have a zone 2-6 travelcard and travel from Highbury & Islington to
Richmond via the North London Line I am staying within my zones so no money
is deducted - no problem.

However if I decide to take the Victoria line then the District (going via
Zone 1) the Oystercard has no way of knowing how I got to Richmond so
presumably it cannot deduct any money in this case either.

Question: If I were to travel from Highbury to Richmond via Zone 1 on a
daily basis, knowing full well I was not being charged the correct fare, is
this fare evasion?

In that case you would appear to have both evaded your fare and
overtravelled.

Fare evasion, under Regulation of Railways Act 1889 s.5(3)(a), is
defined: "travels or attempts to travel on a railway without having
previously paid his fare and with intent to avoid payment thereof". If
you travel into zone 1 without paying for it then you have not paid the
fare for your journey.

Overtravelling, under Regulation of Railways Act 1889 s.5(3)(c), is
defined: "having paid his fare for a certain distance knowingly and
wilfully proceeds by train beyond that distance without previously
paying the additional fare for the additional distance, and with intent
to avoid payment thereof". In this case you have a ticket for zone 2-6
so when you travel into zone 1 you commit this offence because you know
that the validity of your ticket stops at the zone 1-2 boundary.

However, proving either of these offences would be difficult.
Fortunately for people who do pay their fare and don't want fares to go
up because fare evasion cuts revenues, most of the London Underground
Revenue Control Inspectors are switched on.

Your fare is not something to be paid only if you cannot avoid it - you
are using a service that costs money to provide and so you should pay
for it. If you don't want to pay your tube fare then get the bus!


Pete

wrote:

Your fare is not something to be paid only if you cannot avoid it - you
are using a service that costs money to provide and so you should pay
for it. If you don't want to pay your tube fare then get the bus!

Hardly. The OP is travelling with an Oyster card, using it as
instructed. The correct fare is by definition the one that is charged,
so long as he/she has touched in and out as required.

The only way to evade a fare deliberately by Oyster is not to touch
in/out as required.

Neil