Haveing jsut spent the best part of a Saturday (I know I shouldn't but
need's must) doing Oxford Street and witnessing the nightmare of buses and
traffic I have a posssible solution.

Firstly, shutting half of OS from Oxford Circus to TCR due to a large crane
that caused all buses to be rerouted down Charing Cross Road, Shaftesbury
Avene, Haymarket, Regent Street, these sort of works should be done at
night, NOT during a busy day.

Apart from that and the fact that there are too many busses, mostly with
empty seats I have noticed the following.

Causes of the problems.
Too many busses
Too many bus stops/laybys which despite busses pulling in, others can't
overtake and then the ones that do, block the ones that pulled in from
escaping.
Too many tourists not understanding 'pay before entry' and unable to read
the English only instructions on the roadside ticket machines.
Drivers telling passengers they can't take money, then waiting at the stop
while the passenger tries to figure out the machine.

My possible solution.
Trams have been talked about for years but too expensive to introduce.
Why not make the busses solve the very problems they are causing.
The street should be zoned off to Busses only, not cabs or bikes or anything
else, from Orchard Street (Selfridges) to TCR
The road should be single lane only in each direction, (this still leaves
space for emergency vehicles to pass in the now redundant road space).
All central islands should be removed.
All traffic lights at roads crossing or joining OS should be phased
together.
All bus stops removed.
When buses enter OS they become part of a shuttle, travelling in single file
and not overtaking or needing to pull in.
All traffice lights crossing the street will turn red together stopping
movement on the whole of OS while traffic crosses. Meanwhile all the busses
will open doors and allow entry or egress to passengers at the same time.
Lights turn red/amber and doors close.
Lights turn green and all buses move at once at a dictated speed suggest 5
or 10mph
Lights turn red, all busses stop (off a junction).
Repeat

This means that firstly the buses are all moving together and all stopping
together. No overtaking, pulling in etc.
All cross traffic moves at the same time.
No more wasted time with non moving vehicles that have their doors shut,
then moving 10 feet to the stop then holding up more traffic while they then
open for passengers.

Perhaps no charges to use the bus while in shuttle mode, (it's probably
costing them more at present in wasted fuel and wages than they are earning
from the few people that are on the busses)

Possibility perhaps of creating a terminus at Marble Arch and Centrepoint
for busses to turn, therefore reducing the number of busses on the streets.

Maybe also introducing JayWalking byelaws on the length of the zone except
when all busses are at a standstill allowing people to cross anywhere.
Remember half the people on the street appear to be Americans who are fully
aware of Jaywalking laws to the point they won't cross even when it's safe
to do so!

Admittedly, this plan is a little rough round the edges and some tightening
up may be needed, but your comments would be most welcome.

Perhaps resulting discussion could be submitted to TfL or Wesminster Road
Management Dept.

Steve

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 10:14:39 +0100, Steve wrote:

All bus stops removed.
When buses enter OS they become part of a shuttle, travelling in single file
and not overtaking or needing to pull in.
All traffice lights crossing the street will turn red together stopping
movement on the whole of OS while traffic crosses. Meanwhile all the busses
will open doors and allow entry or egress to passengers at the same time.

So, if there are no bus stops, how do you know where to wait for your
bus? Do you just hang around near some traffic lights and hope they
turn red as your bus approaches?

asdf wrote:
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 10:14:39 +0100, Steve wrote:

All bus stops removed.
When buses enter OS they become part of a shuttle, travelling in single file
and not overtaking or needing to pull in.
All traffice lights crossing the street will turn red together stopping
movement on the whole of OS while traffic crosses. Meanwhile all the busses
will open doors and allow entry or egress to passengers at the same time.

So, if there are no bus stops, how do you know where to wait for your
bus? Do you just hang around near some traffic lights and hope they
turn red as your bus approaches?


It's all too elaborate. They should follow existing examples, ie
whenever the pavements in Oxford Street get too crowded, all access to
the street should be blocked off, allowing people to disperse safely
into the Underground.

asdf wrote:

So, if there are no bus stops, how do you know where to wait for your
bus? Do you just hang around near some traffic lights and hope they
turn red as your bus approaches?

How about doing it the other way round.

Relocate all bus stops to the traffic lights. If a bus is to stop and
approaching the lights, turn them to red and allow crossing. Once the
bus is ready to move off, it pushes a button to change the lights in
its favour and can do so.

Neil

Steve wrote:
Haveing jsut spent the best part of a Saturday (I know I shouldn't but
need's must) doing Oxford Street and witnessing the nightmare of buses
Causes of the problems.
Too many busses
Too many bus stops/laybys which despite busses pulling in, others can't
overtake and then the ones that do, block the ones that pulled in from
escaping.
Too many tourists not understanding 'pay before entry' and unable to read
the English only instructions on the roadside ticket machines.
Drivers telling passengers they can't take money, then waiting at the stop
while the passenger tries to figure out the machine.

Dave's site has a neat project summary.
http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/77

"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 10:14:39 +0100, Steve wrote:

All bus stops removed.
When buses enter OS they become part of a shuttle, travelling in single
file
and not overtaking or needing to pull in.
All traffice lights crossing the street will turn red together stopping
movement on the whole of OS while traffic crosses. Meanwhile all the
busses
will open doors and allow entry or egress to passengers at the same time.

So, if there are no bus stops, how do you know where to wait for your
bus? Do you just hang around near some traffic lights and hope they
turn red as your bus approaches?

As there are so many buses and so many junctions, then yes, you would just
hang around. Makes no odds which bus you get as pretty much they are all
going to one end of the street or other, and as per my suggestion there
would be no charge anyway. (I know there are a few exceptions, I did say
this was a little rough around the edges). Once arriving at the end of OS
terminus you could change to the bus you want at a proper bus stop.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
ups.com...
asdf wrote:

So, if there are no bus stops, how do you know where to wait for your
bus? Do you just hang around near some traffic lights and hope they
turn red as your bus approaches?

How about doing it the other way round.

Relocate all bus stops to the traffic lights. If a bus is to stop and
approaching the lights, turn them to red and allow crossing. Once the
bus is ready to move off, it pushes a button to change the lights in
its favour and can do so.

Neil

Possibly, but that would negate the proposal of all lights being red/green
at the same time. With the amount of buses as there are currently then most
of the lights would never become green.

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 10:14:39 +0100, "Steve"
wrote:

Haveing jsut spent the best part of a Saturday (I know I shouldn't but
need's must) doing Oxford Street and witnessing the nightmare of buses and
traffic I have a posssible solution.

Causes of the problems.
Too many busses
Too many bus stops/laybys which despite busses pulling in, others can't
overtake and then the ones that do, block the ones that pulled in from
escaping.
Too many tourists not understanding 'pay before entry' and unable to read
the English only instructions on the roadside ticket machines.
Drivers telling passengers they can't take money, then waiting at the stop
while the passenger tries to figure out the machine.

My possible solution.
Trams have been talked about for years but too expensive to introduce.
Why not make the busses solve the very problems they are causing.
The street should be zoned off to Busses only, not cabs or bikes or anything
else, from Orchard Street (Selfridges) to TCR

I can't see this happening. TfL have a policy to encourage cycling while
Westminster and the local Traders Association would not wish to see
taxis curtailed. There is enough of an outcry over the alleged effects
of the congestion charge without adding to it.

The road should be single lane only in each direction, (this still leaves
space for emergency vehicles to pass in the now redundant road space).

It is already isn't it apart from the approach to Oxo Cir junction from
the west where a right turn lane is required for buses to Regent St.

All central islands should be removed.

I can see some merit in this but islands are only an issue between Oxo
and TCR. I can't think of any between Oxo and Selfridges following the
changes to the lights / pavements.

All traffic lights at roads crossing or joining OS should be phased
together.
All bus stops removed.
When buses enter OS they become part of a shuttle, travelling in single file
and not overtaking or needing to pull in.
All traffice lights crossing the street will turn red together stopping
movement on the whole of OS while traffic crosses. Meanwhile all the busses
will open doors and allow entry or egress to passengers at the same time.
Lights turn red/amber and doors close.
Lights turn green and all buses move at once at a dictated speed suggest 5
or 10mph
Lights turn red, all busses stop (off a junction).
Repeat

I don't get this at all. This would mean boarding and alighting points
varied by time of day and day of the week. It would cause chaos and
confusion and I doubt it would pass any sort of safety verification.

The extent to which traffic moved would be entirely dependent on the
volume of vehicles and also the cycle times at traffic lights. There is
also the issue that traffic light cycle times would surely have to be
somehow linked to the volume of bus passengers boarding and alighting.
How would the traffic lights know how many people wished to board and
alight from each bus? The added complication is that a fair proportion
of bus demand on Oxford St occurs from people decided to hop on board
when a bus is already at a stop.

Possibility perhaps of creating a terminus at Marble Arch and Centrepoint
for busses to turn, therefore reducing the number of busses on the streets.

Funny I thought there already were stopping areas at both of these
places. If not I'd be interested to know where the 1, 14, 134, 242, 159
and 30 all terminate.

Maybe also introducing JayWalking byelaws on the length of the zone except
when all busses are at a standstill allowing people to cross anywhere.

Pointless as it is unenforceable. Are we to have "plastic policemen"
acting like morons every metre of so along the length of Oxford St?
Surely they need to be protecting us from the imminent terrorist threat?
Half of London could explode at any given moment.

Remember half the people on the street appear to be Americans who are fully
aware of Jaywalking laws to the point they won't cross even when it's safe
to do so!

Not sure how you can readily identify half of the people as Americans.

Admittedly, this plan is a little rough round the edges and some tightening
up may be needed, but your comments would be most welcome.

This has been done before - there have been reports recommending huge
cuts to the bus network to make it happen. Oxford St cannot operate
properly without high volumes of public transport provision whether by
bus or by Tube - the Central Line closure showed that. There will
always be a part of the shopping crowd who want access to taxis so it
will be hard to ban them.

The few things I can think of are

a) Link together some bus services that were previously split - the
8 and 98 spring to mind. This might reduce the volume of buses still
needing to run along the street.

b) Review some service groups like the 10 and 390 to see if they
could be thinned out.

c) Divert some services from the West to run via Wigmore Street
where they terminate at Oxford Circus - 113, 137 and 189 spring to
mind.

d) Block off some of the side streets between Oxo and TCR. I
appreciate this will create some difficulties but it would reduce the
need for traffic light controlled junctions. Some of the remaining
junctions may need longer cycle times to allow the higher volumes of
traffic to pass through them without blocking all of Soho and Fitzrovia.

e) Have the same streetscape design between Oxo and TCR as there is
between Oxo and Marble Arch. This may improve pedestrian circulation a
little bit if coupled with the removal of central islands.

I still doubt that the above would create much of an improvement because
the high passenger volumes mean lots of buses are needed and there are
very long established routes which millions of people rely upon to get
to work and to the shops. If there was an easy solution it would have
been found by now.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Bob wrote:
Steve wrote:
Haveing jsut spent the best part of a Saturday (I know I shouldn't but
need's must) doing Oxford Street and witnessing the nightmare of buses
Causes of the problems.
Too many busses
Too many bus stops/laybys which despite busses pulling in, others can't
overtake and then the ones that do, block the ones that pulled in from
escaping.
Too many tourists not understanding 'pay before entry' and unable to read
the English only instructions on the roadside ticket machines.
Drivers telling passengers they can't take money, then waiting at the stop
while the passenger tries to figure out the machine.

Dave's site has a neat project summary.
http://www.alwaystouchout.com/project/77

To expand on that, I did hear a rumour that some of the difficulties on
Oxford St are caused by a disagreement between TfL and Westminster
Council, who control all the traffic light timings. The allegation was
that the Council preferred favourable timings for north-south traffic
than for east-west traffic (for some unknown reason), and so this
prevented signal timings on Oxford St being optimised to ease the
bus/taxi jams. It's just a rumour, though.

Oh, and that crane work was also going on during the night, and the
traffic was terrible then too; I managed to get a bus from Centrepoint
at about 0130 on Saturday morning, but then spent the next half an hour
sitting in diversion traffic down Charing Cross Road and Shaftesbury
Avenue... (incidentally, Cambridge Circus must be one of the
worst-arranged junctions in central London; at any time of day or night
it seems to be a mess of confused pedestrians, red-light-jumping cars
and box-blocking buses)

"Too many buses" is certainly a problem on Oxford St, and I think the
only real solution is to remove some of them (if not all). The problem
is deciding which ones should be removed; those which terminate on
Oxford St are relatively easy candidates for curtailment, because most
passengers alight at Marble Arch or Centrepoint. However, some provide a
very useful through service (e.g. 15, 94) so a bit of judicious
diverting could be helpful; I wonder if Brook Street in Mayfair might be
a good diversionary route in addition to Wigmore Street to the north.

I think that in the long term, pedestrianisation should be the goal; if
Oxford Street is to survive in the face of competition from other
shopping areas such as Brent Cross or (particularly) White City, it
needs to be an *pleasant* place to shop; something it really isn't at
the moment. Trams would be a great help, particularly if connected up to
Cross River Tram at Holborn, but I don't think the nature of shopping
along Oxford Street (either start at one end and shop your way to the
other, or head for a specific shop) absolutely requires them.


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Steve wrote:
Haveing jsut spent the best part of a Saturday (I know I shouldn't but
need's must) doing Oxford Street and witnessing the nightmare of buses and
traffic I have a posssible solution.
...
My possible solution.
Trams have been talked about for years but too expensive to introduce.
Why not make the busses solve the very problems they are causing.
The street should be zoned off to Busses only, not cabs or bikes or anything
else, from Orchard Street (Selfridges) to TCR...

You can't justify keeping bikes out. On the road, they are much less
obstructive and dangerous to crossing pedestrians than larger, faster
vehicles, and detours are much more of a problem for them than for
motor vehicles.

I would try using smaller, narrower buses, which passengers can hop on
and off wherever they like.

Plan B, assuming they won't bring back Routemasters:

Remove all the buses, by a combination of terminating them at the ends
and using parallel roads. Replace them with travolators.

Allow taxis, but only one way, alternatively east- and westbound on
each block. They can use their Knowledge to reach Oxford Street by the
correct side road for the destination required.

Reduce the carriageway to 5 metres wide, mainly for cycles but with
taxis allowed in as above. Strictly no overtaking of moving cycles by
taxis. Stopping allowed on the left. Delivery vehicles allowed on the
same basis as taxis, outside shopping hours.

Colin McKenzie

--
On average in Britain, you're more likely to get a head injury walking
a mile than cycling it.
So why aren't we all exhorted to wear walking helmets?