Had a look around the mock up train at euston the other day. Whatever
happened to the walkthrough train concept they were promoting a few
years back with cars joined by a gangway? I also remember some
silliness over overhead line pickup too but unsurprisingly that seems
to have disappeared into the daft ideas bin. From the mockup I'd say
it looks pretty much the same as the interiors on the northern and
jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit disappointing.

Anyone have any tech specs for these trains? I've tried to google
but nothing about the powertrain or electronics comes up. Also , what
type of signalling will be used? Will it be the same as the jubilee
system
or will it be yet-another-new-incompatable-with-every-other-line
system as per LULs apparent standard approach these days?

B2003

In message .com,
Boltar writes
Had a look around the mock up train at euston the other day. Whatever
happened to the walkthrough train concept they were promoting a few
years back with cars joined by a gangway? I also remember some
silliness over overhead line pickup too but unsurprisingly that seems
to have disappeared into the daft ideas bin. From the mockup I'd say
it looks pretty much the same as the interiors on the northern and
jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit disappointing.

Anyone have any tech specs for these trains? I've tried to google
but nothing about the powertrain or electronics comes up. Also , what
type of signalling will be used? Will it be the same as the jubilee
system
or will it be yet-another-new-incompatable-with-every-other-line
system as per LULs apparent standard approach these days?

Metronet are installing a brand new flavour of ATO on the Victoria line
to replace the existing system. It will be different from that being
developed for the Jubilee line as it's being supplied by a different
company. The Victoria version, I would expect, should appear on their
other lines (Bakerloo and SSL lines) as they get their signalling
upgraded.

As the Jubilee is being upgraded by Tubelines, expect to see the Jubilee
system employed on the Northern and Piccadilly in due course. There
have been a few items in Underground News from LURS about this recently.

I don't think you can blame LUL on this as it's being led by the
companies put in to manage the infrastructure under the PPP. LUL get
what they are given as long as it meets the specification.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

In message .com,
Boltar writes
Had a look around the mock up train at euston the other day. Whatever
happened to the walkthrough train concept they were promoting a few
years back with cars joined by a gangway? I also remember some
silliness over overhead line pickup too but unsurprisingly that seems
to have disappeared into the daft ideas bin. From the mockup I'd say
it looks pretty much the same as the interiors on the northern and
jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit disappointing.

Anyone have any tech specs for these trains? I've tried to google
but nothing about the powertrain or electronics comes up. Also , what
type of signalling will be used? Will it be the same as the jubilee
system
or will it be yet-another-new-incompatable-with-every-other-line
system as per LULs apparent standard approach these days?

Metronet are installing a brand new flavour of ATO on the Victoria line
to replace the existing system. It will be different from that being
developed for the Jubilee line as it's being supplied by a different
company. The Victoria version, I would expect, should appear on their
other lines (Bakerloo and SSL lines) as they get their signalling upgraded.

As the Jubilee is being upgraded by Tubelines, expect to see the
Jubilee system employed on the Northern and Piccadilly in due course.
There have been a few items in Underground News from LURS about this
recently.

I don't think you can blame LUL on this as it's being led by the
companies put in to manage the infrastructure under the PPP. LUL get
what they are given as long as it meets the specification.

I know it's bad form to follow up ones own post, but another thought has
occurred to me (I like to make the most of the few I get!!)

When these upgrades are done, they are frequently done a number of years
apart from each other. As technology will have moved on in the
meantime, it's hardly surprising if some new development is used for the
next (similar) project. Otherwise we might still be buying Standard
Stock?
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
I don't think you can blame LUL on this as it's being led by the
companies put in to manage the infrastructure under the PPP. LUL get
what they are given as long as it meets the specification.

Surely LUL have the final say? Or do the infracos have cart blanche
to do what the please? Seems a bit crazy to have 2 different types of
new ATO signalling on the system.

B2003

In article . com,
Boltar writes
Surely LUL have the final say? Or do the infracos have cart blanche
to do what the please? Seems a bit crazy to have 2 different types of
new ATO signalling on the system.

No (blame whoever wrote the contract), Yes (ditto), and Yes.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On 28 Aug 2006 11:21:48 -0700, "Boltar"
wrote:


Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
I don't think you can blame LUL on this as it's being led by the
companies put in to manage the infrastructure under the PPP. LUL get
what they are given as long as it meets the specification.

Surely LUL have the final say? Or do the infracos have cart blanche
to do what the please? Seems a bit crazy to have 2 different types of
new ATO signalling on the system.

B2003
Nope. Provided the Infracos comply with LUs standards - which define
functionality not a particular supplier - they are free to go with
different suppliers (and inevitably will since Westinghouse is part of
the Metronet consortium). It is going to cause a challenge for the
lines where interworking of services occur (e.g. Baron's Court to
Hanger Lane junction).

P

On Wed, 30 Aug 2006, Paul wrote:

On 28 Aug 2006 11:21:48 -0700, "Boltar"
wrote:

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

I don't think you can blame LUL on this as it's being led by the
companies put in to manage the infrastructure under the PPP. LUL get
what they are given as long as it meets the specification.

Surely LUL have the final say? Or do the infracos have cart blanche to
do what the please? Seems a bit crazy to have 2 different types of new
ATO signalling on the system.

Nope. Provided the Infracos comply with LUs standards - which define
functionality not a particular supplier - they are free to go with
different suppliers

PC manufacturers are free to go with different suppliers, and yet
different brands of PCs seem to be remarkably compatible. Why can't the LU
requirements include a detailed technical specification, and require
compatibility with it? After all, they don't let each infraco use whatever
track gauge or traction voltage they feel like, do they? That wouldn't
affect supplier choice - an infraco could buy the gear from anyone, as
long as it complied with the standard.

tom

--
find porn apricot

On 28 Aug 2006 01:45:26 -0700, "Boltar" wrote:

Had a look around the mock up train at euston the other day. Whatever
happened to the walkthrough train concept they were promoting a few
years back with cars joined by a gangway? I also remember some
silliness over overhead line pickup too but unsurprisingly that seems
to have disappeared into the daft ideas bin. From the mockup I'd say
it looks pretty much the same as the interiors on the northern and
jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit disappointing.

Anyone have any tech specs for these trains? I've tried to google
but nothing about the powertrain or electronics comes up. Also , what
type of signalling will be used? Will it be the same as the jubilee
system
or will it be yet-another-new-incompatable-with-every-other-line
system as per LULs apparent standard approach these days?

Metronet are using Westinghouse's "distance to go" moving block
signalling.

http://www.metronetrail.com/default....=1080661114828
http://www.metronetrail.com/default....=1078652965937

Tube Lines are using the Alcatel system that works on the DLR, Paris RER
and the Skytrain in Vancouver.

There has been a fair amount of detail about both signalling schemes in
Modern Railways over the last year or so.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:40:18 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:


Metronet are using Westinghouse's "distance to go" moving block
signalling.

http://www.metronetrail.com/default....=1080661114828
http://www.metronetrail.com/default....=1078652965937

Tube Lines are using the Alcatel system that works on the DLR, Paris RER
and the Skytrain in Vancouver.

There has been a fair amount of detail about both signalling schemes in
Modern Railways over the last year or so.
I believe - and I'm ready to be corrected - that DTG is fixed block
not moving block. Alcatel's S40 system is moving block (and as far as
I know isn't used by RER - the other main reference site is KCR's
WestRail in Hong Kong).

P

Boltar wrote:
Had a look around the mock up train at euston the other day. Whatever
happened to the walkthrough train concept they were promoting a few
years back with cars joined by a gangway? I also remember some
silliness over overhead line pickup too but unsurprisingly that seems
to have disappeared into the daft ideas bin.

Neither of these were ever on the cards for the Victoria line - you're
thinking of the SSL (Circle/Met/District/H&C) stock. The Victoria, like
the other tube lines, is too curvy and height-restricted for
walkthrough and OHLE respectively.

From the mockup I'd say
it looks pretty much the same as the interiors on the northern and
jubilee lines with the same narrow windows. Bit disappointing.

The whole line is underground, so I'm not convinced windows would add
much...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org