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Old August 4th 03, 08:09 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default District line, High St Kensington/Earls Court

In article , PhilD
writes
As I understand it, the "mileage" (what is the correct term for metric
units?) counts up along the route


from Ongar at 0.00 to Mile End, across to the District, then

through Monument, Victoria to Earl's
Court, then counts backwards around the western curve to High Street
Kensington.


Platforms 3 & 4 only, yes.

From Earls Court, this gives:

Earls Court 46.27
High St Kensington 45.65 (and 50.97 on Circle line)


45.65 is the buffers of platforms 3 and 4 (in fact, the latter, ISTR).
50.97 is Metropolitan mileage to the midpoint of platforms 1 and 2. That
mileage is calculated by following the District and then the Piccadilly
to Rayner's Lane, then backwards along the Metropolitan to Baker Street,
then forwards again via Notting Hill Gate.

South of High St Kensington is a connection between the Circle and
District routes, and both sources of information give this as 45.34.


Correct; this is on the HSK-EC curve.

This clearly does not tie up with the Circle line scale, but appears
to me as though the figure should be greater than 45.65 (i.e.
somewhere between the High St Kensington and Earls Court figures) for
the District scale.


Coo, you're quite right. I'd never noticed that before.

Other sources suggest that 45.01 is the correct figure for HSK buffers
and 45.03 for the midpoint of the through lines. Though that doesn't
feel quite right.

On the other hand, one source suggests that the kilometrage stops
decreasing at 45.34 and starts increasing again. I can't think why it
would, though.

Thanks for pointing this out. I have corrected the relevant bits of
CULG.

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Old August 5th 03, 07:10 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default District line, High St Kensington/Earls Court

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message ...
This clearly does not tie up with the Circle line scale, but appears
to me as though the figure should be greater than 45.65 (i.e.
somewhere between the High St Kensington and Earls Court figures) for
the District scale.


Coo, you're quite right. I'd never noticed that before.

Other sources suggest that 45.01 is the correct figure for HSK buffers
and 45.03 for the midpoint of the through lines. Though that doesn't
feel quite right.

On the other hand, one source suggests that the kilometrage stops
decreasing at 45.34 and starts increasing again. I can't think why it
would, though.

Thanks for pointing this out. I have corrected the relevant bits of
CULG.


Your conclusion is the same as mine (i.e. why would the scale suddenly
increase again?). I see you have taken the junction as "correct" and
the platforms as in error. You might be interested to know that the
RCH Junction Diagrams tie up with the figures as you now quote. Is
this the "other source" to which you alude?

PhilD

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Old August 5th 03, 05:21 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default District line, High St Kensington/Earls Court

In article , PhilD
writes
Your conclusion is the same as mine (i.e. why would the scale suddenly
increase again?).


Talking this over with a colleague, we are unable to come up with a
valid reason other than "historical". Even the Cromwell Curve doesn't
produce a good explanation; the measurements would be:

Gloucester Road 45.35
Cromwell Curve North Jn 45.79
Junction with Circle 46.02
High Street Kensington 46.33 (46.35 buffers)

I see you have taken the junction as "correct" and
the platforms as in error. You might be interested to know that the
RCH Junction Diagrams tie up with the figures as you now quote. Is
this the "other source" to which you alude?


Not this time, though it's a source I use from time to time.

Simple geography is an issue here. HSK is a kilometre due north of
Earl's Court, so the kilometrage must be more than that. That makes
45.65 a totally impossible number.

The District WTT gives a distance of 1.26km, giving 45.01 at the
buffers.

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Old August 6th 03, 03:52 PM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default District line, High St Kensington/Earls Court

I wrote:
Other sources suggest that 45.01 is the correct figure for HSK buffers
and 45.03 for the midpoint of the through lines. Though that doesn't
feel quite right.

On the other hand, one source suggests that the kilometrage stops
decreasing at 45.34 and starts increasing again. I can't think why it
would, though.


I had some time in hand this morning, so I went and looked.

Firstly, Quail and my other sources that use the 45.65 figure are plain
and simply wrong. How do I know? Simple. There's a 45.0 kilometre plate
*on the station wall*.

Further observation shows that there are plates attached to various
sleepers with kilometrages marked on them. In particular:

* A plate at the south end of platform 2 is 51.015km.
* A plate at the south end of platform 3 is 45.110km.
* A plate at the south end of platform 4 is 45.094km.
* Pacing it out, platform 3 starts about 15m south of platform 2.
* The platform 3 buffers are about level with a plate stating it is 100m
north of the south end of platform 2.
* Platform 2 ends about 25m beyond that point.

If a D stock car is 20m long, these are consistent with each other:
Circle District
51.030 45.110 south end of platform 3
51.015 45.095 south end of platform 2
51.014 45.094 south end of platform 4
50.915 44.995 platform 3 buffers
50.890 44.970 north end of platform 2

This would make the nominal mid-point of the station 50.960/45.040,
which isn't too bad a match for the 50.97 in various sources.

However, the 45.0km plate is, as best I can judge, 40m south of the
"100m" plate and so 60m north of the south end of platform 2. That puts
it at 50.955/45.035. That's a *serious* discrepency. There's no sign of
the 51.0 kilometre plate that ought to be around the station somewhere.

Finally, near the north end of platform 2 is a plate saying that this
sleeper belongs to the District, the next one to the Circle, and that
the sleeper is at 50.900km Circle and 45.570km District. That's fine for
the former but not the latter - it should be 44.980. It's not measured
via Gloucester Road either - that would be 46.32 (Inner Rail) or 46.35
(Outer Rail).

It's also possible that these data plates are lying. If anyone sees any
others at nearby stations, please report the values on them.

[There are two kinds of plate. One gives the station name and distance
from the start of the station. The other gives various numbers I haven't
identified but includes, in small print at the bottom, the kilometrage,
line, and a date.]

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
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Old August 7th 03, 07:34 AM posted to uk.transport.london,uk.railway
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Default District line, High St Kensington/Earls Court

On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:52:39 +0100 Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
}
} [There are two kinds of plate. One gives the station name and distance
} from the start of the station. The other gives various numbers I haven't
} identified but includes, in small print at the bottom, the kilometrage,
} line, and a date.]

What typically would constitute the "start" of a station for the
purposes of these measurements?

Matthew
--
Il est important d'être un homme ou une femme en colère; le jour où nous
quitte la colère, ou le désir, c'est cuit. - Barbara

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Old August 7th 03, 08:40 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default District line, High St Kensington/Earls Court

In article , Matthew
Malthouse writes
} [There are two kinds of plate. One gives the station name and distance
} from the start of the station.


What typically would constitute the "start" of a station for the
purposes of these measurements?


Didn't I say? Sorry. Top of the platform ramp, or station headwall, at
the "arrival" end of the station.

--
Clive D.W. Feather, writing for himself | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8371 1138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Written on my laptop; please observe the Reply-To address


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