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Old December 29th 06, 09:09 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Morden to Sutton - still possible?

Just noticed on Wikipedia that originally it was hoped to take the Northern
Line beyond Morden and onto what's now the Thameslink loop to run down to
Sutton - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morden_...ailway_station

How far apart are the lines now and what would, other than line capacity,
carriage size and cost, would prevent such a connection being made today?



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Old December 29th 06, 09:48 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Morden to Sutton - still possible?


"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote in message
...
Just noticed on Wikipedia that originally it was hoped to take the
Northern Line beyond Morden and onto what's now the Thameslink loop to run
down to Sutton - see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morden_...ailway_station

How far apart are the lines now and what would, other than line capacity,
carriage size and cost, would prevent such a connection being made today?


Nothing has changed. The lines are as close together now as they
were when the rail line was built in 1930 (the underground line was
completed in 1926).

The track at the underground depot almost touches the National
rail line, except that it is 20 feet below it.

There's no technical reason why they couldn't be joined, just
financial and operation ones.

tim








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Old December 29th 06, 09:49 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Morden to Sutton - still possible?

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Just noticed on Wikipedia that originally it was hoped to take the
Northern Line beyond Morden and onto what's now the Thameslink loop
to run down to Sutton - see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morden_...ailway_station
How far apart are the lines now and what would, other than line
capacity, carriage size and cost, would prevent such a connection
being made today?


Morden to Morden South station is only about half a mile distant, but more
to the point is the fact that Morden underground depot ends next to the
Sutton end of Morden South Station. The gradient to connect the two can't be
worse than the rest of the line to Sutton. But there are plans (which will
probably never happen) to connect Morden South to Morden Road tramlink
station. Of course the platforms for Tramlink & the Sutton loop at Wimbledon
are next to each other.


--
Regards


Vauxhall


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Old December 30th 06, 05:19 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Morden to Sutton - still possible?

Funnily enough Merton Council recently enquired about an extension to
Morden South and on to Sutton. As expected it came back negative and
extending to Sutton would be very expensive given that new platforms
would need to be provided. It is a scheme that should be considered in
the longer term but it is on a mere wish-list at the moment.
Vauxhall Victor wrote:
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Just noticed on Wikipedia that originally it was hoped to take the
Northern Line beyond Morden and onto what's now the Thameslink loop
to run down to Sutton - see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morden_...ailway_station
How far apart are the lines now and what would, other than line
capacity, carriage size and cost, would prevent such a connection
being made today?


Morden to Morden South station is only about half a mile distant, but more
to the point is the fact that Morden underground depot ends next to the
Sutton end of Morden South Station. The gradient to connect the two can't be
worse than the rest of the line to Sutton. But there are plans (which will
probably never happen) to connect Morden South to Morden Road tramlink
station. Of course the platforms for Tramlink & the Sutton loop at Wimbledon
are next to each other.


--
Regards


Vauxhall


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Old December 30th 06, 07:48 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Morden to Sutton - still possible?


wrote in message
ups.com...
Funnily enough Merton Council recently enquired about an extension to
Morden South and on to Sutton. As expected it came back negative and
extending to Sutton would be very expensive given that new platforms
would need to be provided. It is a scheme that should be considered in
the longer term but it is on a mere wish-list at the moment.


As it has been for 70 years.

Don't expect it in your lifetime.

tim





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Old December 30th 06, 11:31 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Morden to Sutton - still possible?

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Just noticed on Wikipedia that originally it was hoped to take the Northern
Line beyond Morden and onto what's now the Thameslink loop to run down to
Sutton - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morden_...ailway_station

How far apart are the lines now and what would, other than line capacity,
carriage size and cost, would prevent such a connection being made today?


By strange coincidence, clearing out my inbox this evening I find a
link to an article on the planned construction of the Wimbledon -
Sutton line (by the District Railway) with the idea of through running
from the extended Northern Line to Sutton. The Southern Railway were
against it and the result is what we have today.

See http://www.semg.org.uk/RlyMag/WimbledonSuttonRly.pdf

regards
HN28

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Old January 1st 07, 06:52 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Morden to Sutton - still possible?

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Just noticed on Wikipedia that originally it was hoped to take the Northern
Line beyond Morden and onto what's now the Thameslink loop to run down to
Sutton - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morden_...ailway_station

How far apart are the lines now and what would, other than line capacity,
carriage size and cost, would prevent such a connection being made today?


Beyond the physical explanations offered elsewhere, it's probably worth
pointing out that passenger numbers at these stations are amongst the
lowest in London - 23k annually at Morden South, 48k at St Helier, 86k
at Sutton Common and 99k at West Sutton. Although some of this low usage
can probably be attributed to the low frequency service (2tph per
direction), many other London stations with that level of service
achieve much better patronage.

Since there are not many other nearby competing stations, this all
implies that the stations are in pretty inconvenient locations, and a
Northern line extension probably wouldn't attract anywhere near enough
passengers to justify the cost, particularly given the lengthy journey
into London - in fact, journey times could be longer than they are now
(albeit offset by a higher service frequency).

Even the mooted Tramlink route from Wimbledon to Sutton - for which two
routes were proposed, one of which took over this railway - has been
dropped down the priority list in favour of Sutton to Tooting via St
Helier (the hospital rather than the existing station), Mitcham Junction
and Mitcham.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London
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Old January 1st 07, 08:26 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Morden to Sutton - still possible?

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Beyond the physical explanations offered elsewhere, it's probably worth
pointing out that passenger numbers at these stations are amongst the
lowest in London - 23k annually at Morden South, 48k at St Helier, 86k
at Sutton Common and 99k at West Sutton. Although some of this low usage
can probably be attributed to the low frequency service (2tph per
direction), many other London stations with that level of service
achieve much better patronage.


I grew up in the background of these lines. The Express Dairy School
trip was a highlight. We saw a good train on the Morden South Siding.
The dairy is gone now replaced by a mosque.

There used to be reasonably decent trains from Morden South/South Merton
to London Bridge via Tulse Hill. (circa 1970)

Nowadays the Thameslink circular route and timetable is so broken that
the stations just arent practical even though you can actually park
right outside them without paying most times!.

The line and timetable doesnt work in 3 ways.

1) Its out of phase with connections at Sutton and Wimbledon. Always you
seem to have to wait 30 minutes as the connection you wanted just left.

2) Getting to Kings Cross Thameslink (the only time I use these trains
now) from Wimbledon takes over an hour including lots of what seems to
be 10mph chugging.

3) Its *very* hard to fathom out where the trains are going since they
are timetabled 'Sutton' or not at all - they often dont show up on the
Wimbledon destination boards at all even though they are on the online
timetable.

I think its such a shame there isnt a better (fast, joined up,
publiscised) service and a Morden Tube connection. Add that to a couple
of decent car parks and you would take a lot of heat away from Wimbledon
and Morden in the rush.

mysteryflyer
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Old January 1st 07, 09:48 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Morden to Sutton - still possible?


"Mystery Flyer" wrote in message
...
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Beyond the physical explanations offered elsewhere, it's probably worth
pointing out that passenger numbers at these stations are amongst the
lowest in London - 23k annually at Morden South, 48k at St Helier, 86k at
Sutton Common and 99k at West Sutton. Although some of this low usage can
probably be attributed to the low frequency service (2tph per direction),
many other London stations with that level of service achieve much better
patronage.


I grew up in the background of these lines. The Express Dairy School trip
was a highlight. We saw a good train on the Morden South Siding.


I missed out on that treat.

The best we got was a trip to see the Haig homes.

tim



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Old January 2nd 07, 10:28 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Morden to Sutton - still possible?

In article ,
(Mystery Flyer) wrote:

We saw a good train on the Morden South Siding.
The dairy is gone now replaced by a mosque.


The power of prayer?

--
Colin Rosenstiel


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