This morning I took the DLR - it appeared to be the only line that hadn't
completely gone tits-up - and sat at the front on the right. The "driver"
(or whatever you call him, as he doesn't have to drive it) was so tired he
fell asleep between every single stop.

I don't know why - could be because he moonlights as a taxi driver at night
for all I know - or he could be sick, suffer from narcolepsy, or the poor
sod has had a sleepless night for whatever reason, screaming baby,
whatever. That is not the point.

What is the point is that he clearly should have realised he was not fit to
"drive" and gone home sick.

Which made me think again. Maybe he is doing contract work (like me) and
doesn't get paid for sick leave. And can't afford to lose a day's pay.

Is that ever the case? If it is, perhaps they should ensure that all staff
get full paid sick leave. After all, fatigue is a very dangerous problem
and can kill.

But then I got to thinking even more. Had nothing else to do, forgot to
pick up a paper and had left my book at home. If this "driver" was allowing
himself to fall asleep, in full view of his passengers, between every stop,
what happens in the privacy of the tube-driver's cabin?

Driving a tube is far more dangerous (I imagine) and the driver really does
drive it and look out for signals and whatnot. Whereas a DLR train is
essentially driverless.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth. Had a long and frustrating day..... :-)

Tristán White wrote:
This morning I took the DLR - it appeared to be the only line that
hadn't completely gone tits-up - and sat at the front on the right.
The "driver" (or whatever you call him, as he doesn't have to drive
it) was so tired he fell asleep between every single stop.

I don't know why - could be because he moonlights as a taxi driver
at night for all I know - or he could be sick, suffer from
narcolepsy, or the poor sod has had a sleepless night for whatever
reason, screaming baby, whatever. That is not the point.

What is the point is that he clearly should have realised he was
not fit to "drive" and gone home sick.

Which made me think again. Maybe he is doing contract work (like
me) and doesn't get paid for sick leave. And can't afford to lose a
day's pay.

Is that ever the case? If it is, perhaps they should ensure that
all staff get full paid sick leave. After all, fatigue is a very
dangerous problem and can kill.

But then I got to thinking even more. Had nothing else to do,
forgot to pick up a paper and had left my book at home. If this
"driver" was allowing himself to fall asleep, in full view of his
passengers, between every stop, what happens in the privacy of the
tube-driver's cabin?

Driving a tube is far more dangerous (I imagine) and the driver
really does drive it and look out for signals and whatnot. Whereas
a DLR train is essentially driverless.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth. Had a long and frustrating day.....
:-)

Have you reported this to DLR management? If not, please do so. As you
say, he was clearly not in a fit state to do his job.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

"Richard J." wrote in news:fVPth.737$9S5.344
@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:

Have you reported this to DLR management? If not, please do so. As you
say, he was clearly not in a fit state to do his job.


No, I haven't. I wouldn't either, *because* it's only the DLR and the
trains drive themselves anyway. It's hopefully a one-off and hopefully he
doesn't make a habit of it. If he does, he'd have been reported long ago I
guess, by someone a little less forgiving!

Which is why I haven't identified the time I was using the DLR or which
route it was.

As I said, he could have a very valid reason for being knackered. He could
be on strong medication.

But what is clear is that management - if they are reading this list -
really ought to consider giving paid sick leave to contractors. Because no
one who was entitled to sick leave would have worked in that condition. So
that's my main reason for posting it up here.

Tristán White wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in
news:fVPth.737$9S5.344 @text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:

Have you reported this to DLR management? If not, please do so.
As you say, he was clearly not in a fit state to do his job.


No, I haven't. I wouldn't either, *because* it's only the DLR and
the trains drive themselves anyway. It's hopefully a one-off and
hopefully he doesn't make a habit of it. If he does, he'd have
been reported long ago I guess, by someone a little less forgiving!

Which is why I haven't identified the time I was using the DLR or
which route it was.

As I said, he could have a very valid reason for being knackered.
He could be on strong medication.

But what is clear is that management - if they are reading this
list - really ought to consider giving paid sick leave to
contractors. Because no one who was entitled to sick leave would
have worked in that condition. So that's my main reason for posting
it up here.

Others may know for sure, but I would be surprised and rather concerned
if DLR Passenger Service Agents were contractors rather than employees
of Serco Docklands Ltd. Assuming that he is a Serco employee, which
would imply paid sick leave, maybe he was clubbing all night or
moonlighting or drugged or drunk or some other reason why he presented
himself in an unfit state but might not actually qualify for paid sick
leave in the circumstances.

It's true that the actual driving is done by computer. But the agent
has to be alert enough to close the doors safely, and to deal with any
emergency that might occur during the journey. If he's not in a fit
state to do that, then there is a clear safety lapse which ought to be
reported to DLR management.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On 24 Jan, 21:56, "Tristán White"
wrote:
This morning I took the DLR - it appeared to be the only line that hadn't
completely gone tits-up - and sat at the front on the right. The "driver"
(or whatever you call him, as he doesn't have to drive it) was so tired he
fell asleep between every single stop.

More likely he just closed his eyes. I'd be quite impressed if someone
could sleep for 1 minute at a time and wake themselves up to open the
doors at each stop.

But then I got to thinking even more. Had nothing else to do, forgot to
pick up a paper and had left my book at home. If this "driver" was allowing
himself to fall asleep, in full view of his passengers, between every stop,
what happens in the privacy of the tube-driver's cabin?

On the automated lines who knows , though I suspect a lot of paper
reading goes on. On the non automated lines I expect you;d soon notice
if the driver fell asleep as you'd be sitting in a tunnel stationary
for quite a while.

B2003

In message . 145,
Tristán White writes

But then I got to thinking even more. Had nothing else to do, forgot to
pick up a paper and had left my book at home. If this "driver" was allowing
himself to fall asleep, in full view of his passengers, between every stop,
what happens in the privacy of the tube-driver's cabin?

If the driver falls asleep (or feints, etc.) the train stops. On
manually driven tube trains the master controller requires constant
downward pressure, otherwise the brakes are applied automatically (the
device is traditionally known as the dead man's handle).
--
Paul Terry

Boltar wrote:

On 24 Jan, 21:56, "Tristán White"
wrote:

This morning I took the DLR - it appeared to be the only line that hadn't
completely gone tits-up - and sat at the front on the right. The "driver"
(or whatever you call him, as he doesn't have to drive it) was so tired he
fell asleep between every single stop.


More likely he just closed his eyes. I'd be quite impressed if someone
could sleep for 1 minute at a time and wake themselves up to open the
doors at each stop.

....or did he fall asleep so that the passengers had to wake him up to
operate the door controls at the stations...

I have seen very sleepy and otherwise daydreaming attendants at the DLR,
not only in the mornings, but I have yet to see any of them actually
fall asleep so that we passengers have to wake him up at a station. But
I think it would scare me if it ever happend.

But then I got to thinking even more. Had nothing else to do, forgot to
pick up a paper and had left my book at home. If this "driver" was allowing
himself to fall asleep, in full view of his passengers, between every stop,
what happens in the privacy of the tube-driver's cabin?


On the automated lines who knows , though I suspect a lot of paper
reading goes on. On the non automated lines I expect you;d soon notice
if the driver fell asleep as you'd be sitting in a tunnel stationary
for quite a while.

Problem would be if any of them manage to fall asleep still pushing the
master control in his sleep. Maybe that was what actually happend at
Moorgate once upon a time, noone knows for sure.

--
Olof Lagerkvist
ICQ: 724451
Web: http://here.is/olof

On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 01:37:31 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

Tristán White wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in
news:fVPth.737$9S5.344 @text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:

Have you reported this to DLR management? If not, please do so.
As you say, he was clearly not in a fit state to do his job.


No, I haven't. I wouldn't either, *because* it's only the DLR and
the trains drive themselves anyway. It's hopefully a one-off and
hopefully he doesn't make a habit of it. If he does, he'd have
been reported long ago I guess, by someone a little less forgiving!

Which is why I haven't identified the time I was using the DLR or
which route it was.

As I said, he could have a very valid reason for being knackered.
He could be on strong medication.

But what is clear is that management - if they are reading this
list - really ought to consider giving paid sick leave to
contractors. Because no one who was entitled to sick leave would
have worked in that condition. So that's my main reason for posting
it up here.

Others may know for sure, but I would be surprised and rather concerned
if DLR Passenger Service Agents were contractors rather than employees
of Serco Docklands Ltd. Assuming that he is a Serco employee, which
would imply paid sick leave, maybe he was clubbing all night or
moonlighting or drugged or drunk or some other reason why he presented
himself in an unfit state but might not actually qualify for paid sick
leave in the circumstances.

I don't know for certain but I think it highly unlikely that any front
line DLR staff are employed as contractors. They will be direct
employees of the operating organisation - in this case Serco. I cannot
imagine for one moment that DLR staff do not have paid sick leave - if
nothing else the RMT would have had them on strike by now to have got
it! The other more serious point is that there is a clear risk of
people attempting to work in an unfit state due to monetary concerns
which would run counter to proper management of safety risk.

Railway operating staff would be stupid to present themselves for duty
in a drugged (medicinal or recreational) state or drunk. They face
dismissal if they do and fail the drugs and alcohol testing process. The
rules here are quite clear and employees are required to familiarise
themselves with the effects of prescribed or over the counter drugs
where tiredness or impairment to concentration might result. The
parameters re recreational drugs (i.e. not allowed at all) and alcohol
(limits on consumption levels and time parameters for no consumption
prior to commencing a shift) are perfectly clear. Similarly management
need to make sure that employees are safe to work and should take the
necessary action if they suspect an employee is somehow impaired.

It's true that the actual driving is done by computer. But the agent
has to be alert enough to close the doors safely, and to deal with any
emergency that might occur during the journey. If he's not in a fit
state to do that, then there is a clear safety lapse which ought to be
reported to DLR management.

And this is precisely the point. If the train captain was impaired as
suggested and there was an emergency that required his intervention and
rapid response then it's pretty clear that his response would not be
what was required. There are risks that could flow from that state of
affairs. While I can understand why there is some reticence about
reporting on balance I would inform DLR of what I had seen and I'd trust
them to act responsibly in how they dealt with the driver. There are
well defined policies and good support systems for people who may have
drug and alcohol issues but they rely on the individual concerned
accepting they have an issue and require help.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Tristán White" wrote:

This morning I took the DLR - it appeared to be the only line that hadn't
completely gone tits-up - and sat at the front on the right. The "driver"
(or whatever you call him, as he doesn't have to drive it) was so tired he
fell asleep between every single stop.

I got thrown off the DLR the other day by one who was very much awake. Coming
back from City Airport forgot to swipe the Oyster (my excuse: first time I've
ever used Oyster on DLR without a barrier - you get conditioned to expect a
gate - and I was dog tired after a long trip).

E.

"Tristán White" wrote in message
. 109.145...
This morning I took the DLR - it appeared to be the only line that hadn't
completely gone tits-up - and sat at the front on the right. The "driver"
(or whatever you call him, as he doesn't have to drive it) was so tired he
fell asleep between every single stop.

I don't know why - could be because he moonlights as a taxi driver at
night
for all I know - or he could be sick, suffer from narcolepsy, or the poor
sod has had a sleepless night for whatever reason, screaming baby,
whatever. That is not the point.

What is the point is that he clearly should have realised he was not fit
to
"drive" and gone home sick.

Which made me think again. Maybe he is doing contract work (like me) and
doesn't get paid for sick leave. And can't afford to lose a day's pay.

Is that ever the case? If it is, perhaps they should ensure that all staff
get full paid sick leave. After all, fatigue is a very dangerous problem
and can kill.

But then I got to thinking even more. Had nothing else to do, forgot to
pick up a paper and had left my book at home. If this "driver" was
allowing
himself to fall asleep, in full view of his passengers, between every
stop,
what happens in the privacy of the tube-driver's cabin?

Driving a tube is far more dangerous (I imagine) and the driver really
does
drive it and look out for signals and whatnot. Whereas a DLR train is
essentially driverless.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth. Had a long and frustrating day..... :-)

So are you trying to say that between every stop this guy after closing the
doors and operating the train start proceedure so it could proceed to the
next station, physically walked to the front driving seat, sat down fell
asleep, then got up at the next station and did the same again?

Lee